Experiment (2.Viewing)

rlm said:

Yeah, I didn't actually look at the form, I just reacted to your post.

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HeHe, I pointed a ton of my domains back to MapleDots and stuck dn.ca banners everywhere.

I'm hoping all the traffic will translate into some click throughs to the forum.

The only downside is that you're pointing potential end-user type buyers to a forum where sellers discuss things you might not want end-users to see.

Here is another possible end user for pink.ca and works in with the timing of brokers contacting you.

https://hotstocksreview.com/perimet...MIqO__2Z-P7QIV9TWtBh2a7ggnEAEYASAAEgLGdfD_BwE

Could I have you repost that here:
https://dn.ca/topic/9/will-pinkca-sell-next/

It's better discussed there and I have an interesting answer.

MapleDots said:

HeHe, rlm knows the power of no.

It's the same thing Rick Schwartz (Domain King) always says...

A good domainer is the one that can say no to a high offer.

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This is very true

rlm said:

Haha, unfortunately, if they are up front about their identity and business, then I know they're small and this isn't going to be a big sale, maybe a respectable sale, but not a big one. The big companies always hide their identity or go through a broker. I have yet to receive an email that says "Hey, I'm head of IT at [Microsoft|Apple|Google|etc] and I was instructed to contact you. We have a billion dollar idea and need your domain. Where do I send the blank check?" :lol:

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Then please explain to me why it is that when I inquire about your domains using my real name you give me such high prices?

You know I am a small time operator

DomainTrader said:

Then please explain to me why it is that when I inquire about your domains using my real name you give me such high prices?

You know I am a small time operator

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Haha, now when was the last time you inquired about a domain from me? For you Dan, I'll give you 10% off since we go way back

Did we first meet at Domain Roundtable 2005 in Seattle? I think we've seen each other also in Vegas @ TRAFFIC or NamesCon or whatever, right?

rlm said:

So to try and help seed some conversation here, I thought lets try an experiment.

I received an inquiry last week on a 2-word domain [domain redacted], we've been negotiating back and forth, but haven't agreed yet, but maybe close. Both sides have said our final offer, but we're still apart.

So does anyone want to throw out an opinion on a fair end-user valuation or guess what it will sell for (that is if we agree to a sale?)

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Am I missing something
Was the name posted before
I mean not all two word domains are recreated equal right
Or is this a guess how many jelly beans are in the jar game

rlm said:

Haha, now when was the last time you inquired about a domain from me? For you Dan, I'll give you 10% off since we go way back

Did we first meet at Domain Roundtable 2005 in Seattle? I think we've seen each other also in Vegas @ TRAFFIC or NamesCon or whatever, right?

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I think we met originally at TRAFFIC 2002 in Miami

Nafti said:

Knowing who the buyer could be is very important I believe.

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This is not important. It is mandatory. If you do not know who you are dealing with you have lost the negotiation before it has even started. My parents warned me not to talk to strangers. I took that advice to heart.

rlm said:

yesterday I received a $100 offer

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I do not respond to those

MapleDots said:

I finally said go here sales.mapledots.ca
I said read what it takes to do business with me, it specifically says I deal with the end user only.

You don't disclose the end user then the price goes up dramatically.

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I really like this approach. It lets the suitor know that you are serious about your business. Professional and smart

DomainTrader said:

I really like this approach. It lets the suitor know that you are serious about your business. Professional and smart

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I have been praised and critiqued for this approach but nowadays it is probably all I use.



Hello, how much for the domain?

Me...

Go to sales.mapledots.ca

Seriously, I cannot be bothered if the person does not want to give me more information I traditionally ignore it.
The form also says 1k minimum so it reduces the amount of deadbeat offers I get.

rlm said:

Personally, I wouldn't do that. The reality is, you have a darn good idea of who it is so what point are you trying to prove? Brokers exist for several reasons, one being anonymity. There's no point in putting up a wall to negotiating, what are you actually gaining by doing that? Just set your price and stick to it, if the buyer isn't who you thought it was, who really cares, you got your price anyways. Just price it high, stand firm and let the chips fall where they may.

Another reason you don't want to do that is, you don't want to give them any ammunition legally. The CIRA dispute rules say that you cannot register a domain simply to prevent access to the domain to another business. You want to establish that the price is the same, regardless of who the buyer is, not give them the impression that your pricing is jacked up just for a certain buyer.

What you can tell them is that if the seller doesn't disclose their identity and billing address, then you have to assume the worst possible scenario and thus you have to collect an additional 13% HST to cover your ass if CRA says you needed to collect it after the fact. CRA can assess you for the taxes if you didn't collect it when you should have. So tell them if they choose not to disclose, then you'll further be required to add 13% HST on top of the asking price.

In fact, you _could_ follow up saying that the reason you need to know the identity and billing address of the buyer is to ensure you quote a price that includes the proper taxes. That at least covers your ass as to why you needed to know their identity.

Best of luck.
Rob

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This is a very interesting line of discussion!

Thinking and knowing who the buyer is are two very different things. It is critically important to know who the buyer is and if you sell blind you will eventually be blind sided but this is a complicated issue that is likely determined by each persons own knowledge negotiation skills and objectives.

Brokers, well lol, I have played the part of a broker a time or two but I have never used one. I don't hire guys to do things I can do myself (if I enjoy doing them) They exist for anonymity yes but anonymity is a domainers enemy.

RIM says just "set your price" and let the chips fall where they may BUT that puts me in a place where I may not want or need to be. I don't need to set a price. The market can do that. I want the buyer to dictate the price of the domain name and when I say this I mean the buyer ultimately decides how much or how badly they want or need what you the seller has. They can't get it anywhere else remember. Something close maybe but not what you have! I like to let the buyer show me how much they are prepared to pay just to get my attention. I am busy with many names! The buyer dictates the price not the seller. Let their need creates the value...you will know when the # is right

The CIRA ammunition part I do not agree with at all. I can charge what I want to who I want. The only thing I can not do is infringe? Last time I went to a movie I noticed they charged different prices for seniors, students, children and adults all for the same movie! I can do the same thing with my domain name should I so choose.

And negotiating over the sales tax...not a good idea ...taxes apply based on law and #s...if they apply they apply and child be charged regardless of who the buyer is so this is not a negotiation point at all.

What I tell people is pretty simple. I don't do business over the Internet with strangers emailing me from disposable email addresses. If you want to do business introduce yourself and your ideas otherwise there is nothing to consider. I would like to at the very least conform the guy I am selling to is not my direct competitor!

Just my thoughts on IDing the buyer

rlm said:

The only downside is that you're pointing potential end-user type buyers to a forum where sellers discuss things you might not want end-users to see.

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This was something i was thinking also

The main board is open to everyone, remember it will index on google.

But they cannot see the hidden forums where we can talk about all the juicy stuff.
We will probably get a number of hidden forums depending on member status so there will always be places we can discuss things that are not meant for general consumption.

MapleDots said:

I have been praised and critiqued for this approach but nowadays it is probably all I use.



Hello, how much for the domain?

Me...

Go to sales.mapledots.ca

Seriously, I cannot be bothered if the person does not want to give me more information I traditionally ignore it.
The form also says 1k minimum so it reduces the amount of deadbeat offers I get.

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I can not stress how important it is to know who you are dealing with. Primarily for the purposes of defending your ownership should the person contacting you have concerns with respect to your ownership and use? I always ask people to clarify their interest because you need to decide as a seller when to be on offence and when yto be on defence. Buyers can play tricks LOLOL

MapleDots said:

THe main board is open to everyone but they cannot see the hidden forums where we can talk about all the juicy stuff.

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LOL....i thought this part was public

DomainTrader said:

I can not stress how important it is to know who you are dealing with. Primarily for the purposes of defending your ownership should the person contacting you have concerns with respect to your ownership and use? I always ask people to clarify their interest because you need to decide as a seller when to be on offence and when yto be on defence. Buyers can play tricks LOLOL

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Yeah, I put a tiny tidbit of legal at the end of the form so if facebook buys one of my domains I will just sick a big law firm on them to work for a commission. :lol:

DomainTrader said:

I don't need to set a price. The market can do that. I want the buyer to dictate the price of the domain name and when I say this I mean the buyer ultimately decides how much or how badly they want or need what you the seller has.

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You're approach is fine for you, and I think it may even be appropriate for certain domains in certain situations. I have definitely used that approach. One of my 6-figure .ca sales was that way. But I think that works best when you've got a buyer who has an absolute hard-on for the domain as well as deep pockets, and probably only for a truly premium one-of-a-kind-must-have domain. Otherwise I think that strategy puts up a wall, annoys the buyer and they may just become frustrated and go away.

For less than ultra-premium domains I prefer to set my price. I don't set it cheap, but I like to think its reasonable. I never get people just taking my offers right away, it is almost always weeks if not months of mulling it over and trying to negotiate before they commit. I like to feel like I'm being professional and willing to have a conversation.

And I wouldn't consider a single buyer making an offer as "letting the market setting the price". That's one offer, not a market.

Also consider that a lot of people, myself included, will simply move on if you're unwilling to give a price, I'm not into playing games. When you're clearly a domain reseller - I feel you should have a price when its requested.

Anyway, I think your approach is fine for high end domains. Not the 4-figure run of the mill domains. Your way may be less work, but I wonder whether you're losing sales or maximizing the price.

DomainTrader said:

The CIRA ammunition part I do not agree with at all. I can charge what I want to who I want. The only thing I can not do is infringe? Last time I went to a movie I noticed they charged different prices for seniors, students, children and adults all for the same movie! I can do the same thing with my domain name should I so choose.

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Well if a dispute panel had evidence that you quoted one price to a random guy, then quoted another price to some big corporation, they can interpret that any way they want, and one interpretation is that it is evidence of bad faith, that you're trying to prevent a specific company from registering their mark, or that you're trying to disrupt their business, etc... That is open to interpretation by a panel of lawyers who are not always domainer friendly. I wouldn't do it. Of course you don't have that problem if you never quote a price.

DomainTrader said:

And negotiating over the sales tax...not a good idea ...taxes apply based on law and #s...if they apply they apply and child be charged regardless of who the buyer is so this is not a negotiation point at all.

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Yeah, I don't negotiate over sales tax. I am always clear that its price + taxes. But a lot of domainers dont, and sales platforms won't even allow you to do that. It's one price, tax in. And I don't like it. Taxes vary based on your province, so I just cover my ass with the + Taxes on any price quotes. My point was that taxation is an excuse to point out that you need to know who the real buyer is.

DomainTrader said:

What I tell people is pretty simple. I don't do business over the Internet with strangers emailing me from disposable email addresses.

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Eh, it doesn't bother me. I understand why they do it, because they're afraid you'll jack up the price if you know why they want it. So I tend to let them have it. I usually know or have a strong suspicion of who they are anyways, so from my perspective, it puts me in a stronger position to let them think they're fooling me. Anything to let them _think_ they're winning. And why would I want to start negotiations with making them admit to being a sneaky little bastard? Of course this is really predicated on me being pretty sure I know who they are. Maybe I put more effort into research, I'm pretty sure I have better tools than anyone else anyways. My research tools have always been what I consider my trade secrets - it helps me when it comes to buying and selling. And if I'm truly stumped as to who the buyer is, then I'll decide how to handle it depending on the domain and what it means to me personally. The more personally attached I am to a domain, the more likely I'll take your approach. The less attached, the more likely I'll just price it.

Oh, and in regards to the potential legal issues of not knowing who they buyer is? Yes, you could argue that is a theoretical problem, if you're doing something wrong. But if I'm not doing anything wrong, what are they going to do? The reality is, I've never found it to be a problem, especially in .CA. For one, .CA are typically priced where its not worth the legal fees and time for that to happen, they'll just buy the domain. Two, I think CIRA dispute rules are better for the domainer than for other TLDs. Maybe you've had a different experience, but for me, its been a non-issue.