# Experiment



## rlm__ (Nov 9, 2020)

So to try and help seed some conversation here, I thought lets try an experiment.

I received an inquiry last week on a 2-word domain [domain redacted], we've been negotiating back and forth, but haven't agreed yet, but maybe close.  Both sides have said our final offer, but we're still apart.

So does anyone want to throw out an opinion on a fair end-user valuation or guess what it will sell for (that is if we agree to a sale?)


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## MacMan (Nov 9, 2020)

Two words, what would it sell for?
I'd probably say around $2500

Mobile care is going to be big with the elderly and medical.


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## LovelyLynda__ (Nov 10, 2020)

Any domainer worth a hill of beans would ask at least 10 thousand to an end user.


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## Nafti (Nov 15, 2020)

I would say high x,xxx. So anywhere between $7500 and $9999. But it’s RLM so you will get about $500K.


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 15, 2020)

HeHe, rlm knows the power of no.

It's the same thing Rick Schwartz (Domain King) always says...

A good domainer is the one that can say no to a high offer.


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## rlm__ (Nov 15, 2020)

Haha, yes, saying no and being willing to walk away is absolutely key to making big sales.  But that comes with a big reality-check caveat.  You have to know who your buyer is, understand what its worth to them, guess what they can realistically afford, and then estimate your odds at getting a better offer in the future on that particular domain.

In this case, its pretty much a dime-a-dozen domain to me.  Sure I like it, but it really means nothing to me.  So making a sale happen is probably the smart thing to do in this case.  But the principle of getting my price is getting in the way.  I've come down a little from my initial ask.  They've come up a bunch, then I came down a bit more, but drew the line in the sand and said that's it.  They came up again, but $1K short of my line.  That offer was last Sunday.  Since I drew the line in the sand and they didn't meet it, I haven't even responded yet to their $1K short offer.  They haven't followed up either.  Just crickets from both sides.  BTW - Nafti's guess is right on with what I was thinking too.  My initial price was $9500 CAD.

I think what I'm going to do is follow up tomorrow and just send them my invoice at my line-in-the-sand price and either they can pay it or not.  I probably should've take that approach immediately after their last offer, as I find that tactic often works well.  But I was sort of being stubborn, disinterested and busy with other things this week. We'll see what happens.


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## Nafti (Nov 15, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Haha, yes, saying no and being willing to walk away is absolutely key to making big sales.  But that comes with a big reality-check caveat. You have to know who your buyer is, understand what its worth to them, guess what they can realistically afford, and then estimate your odds at getting a better offer in the future on that particular domain.
> 
> In this case, its pretty much a dime-a-dozen domain to me.  Sure I like it, but it really means nothing to me.  So making a sale happen is probably the smart thing to do in this case.  But the principle of getting my price is getting in the way.  I've come down a little from my initial ask.  They've come up a bunch, then I came down a bit more, but drew the line in the sand and said that's it.  They came up again, but $1K short of my line.  That offer was last Sunday.  Since I drew the line in the sand and they didn't meet it, I haven't even responded yet to their $1K short offer.  They haven't followed up either.  Just crickets from both sides.  BTW - Nafti's guess is right on with what I was thinking too.  My initial price was $9500 CAD.
> 
> I think what I'm going to do is follow up tomorrow and just send them my invoice at my line-in-the-sand price and either they can pay it or not.  I probably should've take that approach immediately after their last offer, as I find that tactic often works well.  But I was sort of being stubborn, disinterested and busy with other things this week. We'll see what happens.



Knowing who the buyer could be is very important I believe. I had someone contact me over a week ago wanting to buy a 1 word .ca from me. He tipped his hat and told me who he is. He is the owner of my 1 word + another word in .ca. Buying my 1 word only makes sense. Knowing who he is, I asked more than I normally would. He didn’t write back but the name is very generic and very, very valuable to him so I know he will get back to me at some point. I won’t disclose the name here as it’s still ongoing but I can say over a PM if anyone wants to know. 

I should open up my own appraisal company and call it EldredBot. Has a nice ring to it! Haha


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## rlm__ (Nov 17, 2020)

Well I sent them an invoice for my previously quoted line-in-the-sand price of 6500 + GST (they had offered $5500).  They immediately accepted it this time.  I probably could've stuck to my original price and still closed the deal, but oh well, I'm still happy.  I had a $64 total investment into it, including renewals.

I recently may have negotiated too hard on another domain, apparently pissed them off enough that they ghosted me, after making an 8500 offer. I was ultimately willing to accept their offer, but by then they wouldn't return my emails or phone call. I guess they changed their minds.  Ya win some ya lose some...


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## rlm__ (Nov 17, 2020)

Nafti said:
			
		

> Knowing who the buyer could be is very important I believe.



Absolutely - that might be the single most important thing you can know.


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## Nafti (Nov 17, 2020)

You need to write a book RLM on negotiation strategies.  I have seen some prices this year on what you have gotten on a few of your .ca’s and it’s mind boggling. I do know that you do a lot of research and once you know who the buyer is, you go from there.


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## rlm__ (Nov 17, 2020)

Nafti said:
			
		

> You need to write a book RLM on negotiation strategies.  I have seen some prices this year on what you have gotten on a few of your .ca’s and it’s mind boggling. I do know that you do a lot of research and once you know who the buyer is, you go from there.



Well its definitely know your buyer, have patience, act firm but helpful, and be willing to walk away. It shouldn't be easy.  If its easy and fast, you're leaving money on the table.  I think a good sale is when the buyer really agonizes over it but eventually buys anyways.  That's when you know you got the most out of that buyer.

If anyone is ever in the middle of a negotiation and wants advice, feel free to ask.  Or if you can't figure out who the buyer is,  maybe I can help figure it out, I have a few tricks up my sleeve.  But the reality is, you just can't get blood out of a turnip so many negotiations are short and over without a sale.  But don't let that color your opinion of a domain's value because when the right buyer does show up, you still want to get maximum value out of it.  You want to sell it to the one business who can make best use of your domain, not the 99 other mom-and-pop shops that can't.  The real trick is knowing if you're talking to the one, or one of the other 99...


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## rlm__ (Nov 18, 2020)

Nafti said:
			
		

> You need to write a book RLM on negotiation strategies.



I was mentioning about research and knowing your buyer?  Well yesterday I received a $100 offer on a one-word.ca, the proverbial category-killer keyword type domain.  So I politely just blew him off saying sorry, its would be significantly higher priced than that.  But he responded back asking for a price.  So I started doing my research...  My first attempt, I didn't find anything interesting, other than he has a small shop.  But then I made another research attempt tonight.  I found his name in an obituary, as a VIP guest at the funeral of the founder of a well known .COM site owned by a Toronto company, but most people don't realize its a Canadian company as its not really branded that way. The only reason I put two and two together is that I had already researched the .COM and used archive.org to go waaay back and find the founders names listed on the website 20 years ago. So when I saw the other name in the obit, I did a double take, went back to archive .org to confirm I wasn't just seeing things, and sure enough I was right, it was the same name.  Talk about an obscure set of clues to find, but that's all I needed to know that I may have hooked a whale.  The question is, can I reel that beast in?  Only time will tell. Its quite possible they'll just say I'm crazy and walk away.  Its also not out of the realm of possibility that it'll be a big sale.  I hope I get the opportunity to put the Domain King's negotiation strategies to work again!  In any case, the point is, research, research, research!  Thanks to google, there are almost always clues to be found somewhere.


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## Nafti (Nov 18, 2020)

I always look up someone when I get an inquiry. It’s even better when they tell you exactly who they are.  Some will come out and say that they are the end user. Not in that text of course. @rlm when they tell you that they are an end user, do you make sure that you have extra saliva in your mouth for when you lick those chops? :lol:


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## rlm__ (Nov 18, 2020)

Nafti said:
			
		

> @rlm when they tell you that they are an end user, do you make sure that you have extra saliva in your mouth for when you lick those chops? :lol:



Haha, unfortunately, if they are up front about their identity and business, then I know they're small and this isn't going to be a big sale, maybe a respectable sale, but not a big one.   The big companies always hide their identity or go through a broker. I have yet to receive an email that says "Hey, I'm head of IT at [Microsoft|Apple|Google|etc] and I was instructed to contact you.  We have a billion dollar idea and need your domain.  Where do I send the blank check?"  :lol:


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 18, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Haha, unfortunately, if they are up front about their identity and business, then I know they're small and this isn't going to be a big sale, maybe a respectable sale, but not a big one.   The big companies always hide their identity or go through a broker. I have yet to receive an email that says "Hey, I'm head of IT at [Microsoft|Apple|Google|etc] and I was instructed to contact you.  We have a billion dollar idea and need your domain.  Where do I send the blank check?"  :lol:



I have had a broker on me all week for pink.ca and that is on top of the other broker from last week for the same domain.

I finally said go here sales.mapledots.ca
I said read what it takes to do business with me, it specifically says I deal with the end user only.

You don't disclose the end user then the price goes up dramatically.


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## rlm__ (Nov 18, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> I have had a broker on me all week for pink.ca and that is on top of the other broker from last week for the same domain.
> 
> I finally said go here sales.mapledots.ca
> I said read what it takes to do business with me, it specifically says I deal with the end user only.
> ...



Personally, I wouldn't do that.  The reality is, you have a darn good idea of who it is so what point are you trying to prove?  Brokers exist for several reasons, one being anonymity. There's no point in putting up a wall to negotiating, what are you actually gaining by doing that?  Just set your price and stick to it, if the buyer isn't who you thought it was, who really cares, you got your price anyways.  Just price it high, stand firm and let the chips fall where they may.

Another reason you don't want to do that is, you don't want to give them any ammunition legally.  The CIRA dispute rules say that you cannot register a domain simply to prevent access to the domain to another business.  You want to establish that the price is the same, regardless of who the buyer is, not give them the impression that your pricing is jacked up just for a certain buyer.

What you can tell them is that if the seller doesn't disclose their identity and billing address, then you have to assume the worst possible scenario and thus you have to collect an additional 13% HST to cover your ass if CRA says you needed to collect it after the fact. CRA can assess you for the taxes if you didn't collect it when you should have.  So tell them if they choose not to disclose, then you'll further be required to add 13% HST on top of the asking price.

In fact, you _could_ follow up saying that the reason you need to know the identity and billing address of the buyer is to ensure you quote a price that includes the proper taxes.  That at least covers your ass as to why you needed to know their identity.

Best of luck.
Rob


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## domains (Nov 18, 2020)

there is some real domain negotiation gold in this thread, love the real life examples and sharing.


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## domains (Nov 18, 2020)

wow, pink dotca.  nice name to have right now.


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 18, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Personally, I wouldn't do that.  The reality is, you have a darn good idea of who it is so what point are you trying to prove?  Brokers exist for several reasons, one being anonymity. There's no point in putting up a wall to negotiating, what are you actually gaining by doing that?  Just set your price and stick to it, if the buyer isn't who you thought it was, who really cares, you got your price anyways.  Just price it high, stand firm and let the chips fall where they may.
> 
> Another reason you don't want to do that is, you don't want to give them any ammunition legally.  The CIRA dispute rules say that you cannot register a domain simply to prevent access to the domain to another business.  You want to establish that the price is the same, regardless of who the buyer is, not give them the impression that your pricing is jacked up just for a certain buyer.
> 
> ...



Great advice Rob but if you visit sales.mapledots.ca it's a straight form asking for a conclusive offer and who is enquiring. It really does not give them any ammunition because I did not spend a lot of time conversing with the broker.

I simply stated that if he wanted to start a negotiation he would have to fill out the form, same thing I do with everyone.

Generic gmail Email... hey man what ya asking for domain one.

Me: You can inquire at sales.mapledots.ca

Notice there is a tiny little legal tidbit on that form.


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## rlm__ (Nov 18, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> Great advice Rob but if you visit sales.mapledots.ca it's a straight form asking for a conclusive offer and who is enquiring. It really does not give them any ammunition because I did not spend a lot of time conversing with the broker.



Yeah, I didn't actually look at the form, I just reacted to your post.


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 18, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Yeah, I didn't actually look at the form, I just reacted to your post.



HeHe, I pointed a ton of my domains back to MapleDots and stuck dn.ca banners everywhere.

I'm hoping all the traffic will translate into some click throughs to the forum.


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## rlm__ (Nov 18, 2020)

The only downside is that you're pointing potential end-user type buyers to a forum where sellers discuss things you might not want end-users to see.


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## domains (Nov 19, 2020)

Here is another possible end user for pink.ca and works in with the timing of brokers contacting you.

https://hotstocksreview.com/perimet...MIqO__2Z-P7QIV9TWtBh2a7ggnEAEYASAAEgLGdfD_BwE


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 19, 2020)

Could I have you repost that here:
https://dn.ca/topic/9/will-pinkca-sell-next/

It's better discussed there and I have an interesting answer.


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> HeHe, rlm knows the power of no.
> 
> It's the same thing Rick Schwartz (Domain King) always says...
> 
> A good domainer is the one that can say no to a high offer.



This is very true


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Haha, unfortunately, if they are up front about their identity and business, then I know they're small and this isn't going to be a big sale, maybe a respectable sale, but not a big one.   The big companies always hide their identity or go through a broker. I have yet to receive an email that says "Hey, I'm head of IT at [Microsoft|Apple|Google|etc] and I was instructed to contact you.  We have a billion dollar idea and need your domain.  Where do I send the blank check?"  :lol:



Then please explain to me why it is that when I inquire about your domains using my real name you give me such high prices?

You know I am a small time operator


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## rlm__ (Nov 22, 2020)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> Then please explain to me why it is that when I inquire about your domains using my real name you give me such high prices?
> 
> You know I am a small time operator



Haha, now when was the last time you inquired about a domain from me?  For you Dan, I'll give you 10% off since we go way back 

Did we first meet at Domain Roundtable 2005 in Seattle?  I think we've seen each other also in Vegas @ TRAFFIC or NamesCon or whatever, right?


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> So to try and help seed some conversation here, I thought lets try an experiment.
> 
> I received an inquiry last week on a 2-word domain [domain redacted], we've been negotiating back and forth, but haven't agreed yet, but maybe close.  Both sides have said our final offer, but we're still apart.
> 
> So does anyone want to throw out an opinion on a fair end-user valuation or guess what it will sell for (that is if we agree to a sale?)




Am I missing something 
Was the name posted before 
I mean not all two word domains are recreated equal right 
Or is this a guess how many jelly beans are in the jar game


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Haha, now when was the last time you inquired about a domain from me?  For you Dan, I'll give you 10% off since we go way back
> 
> Did we first meet at Domain Roundtable 2005 in Seattle?  I think we've seen each other also in Vegas @ TRAFFIC or NamesCon or whatever, right?




I think we met originally at TRAFFIC 2002 in Miami


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

Nafti said:
			
		

> Knowing who the buyer could be is very important I believe.



This is not important. It is mandatory. If you do not know who you are dealing with you have lost the negotiation before it has even started. My parents warned me not to talk to strangers. I took that advice to heart.


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> yesterday I received a $100 offer



I do not respond to those


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> I finally said go here sales.mapledots.ca
> I said read what it takes to do business with me, it specifically says I deal with the end user only.
> 
> You don't disclose the end user then the price goes up dramatically.



I really like this approach. It lets the suitor know that you are serious about your business. Professional and smart


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 22, 2020)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> I really like this approach. It lets the suitor know that you are serious about your business. Professional and smart



I have been praised and critiqued for this approach but nowadays it is probably all I use.



Hello, how much for the domain?

Me...

Go to sales.mapledots.ca

Seriously, I cannot be bothered if the person does not want to give me more information I traditionally ignore it.
The form also says 1k minimum so it reduces the amount of deadbeat offers I get.


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> Personally, I wouldn't do that.  The reality is, you have a darn good idea of who it is so what point are you trying to prove?  Brokers exist for several reasons, one being anonymity. There's no point in putting up a wall to negotiating, what are you actually gaining by doing that?  Just set your price and stick to it, if the buyer isn't who you thought it was, who really cares, you got your price anyways.  Just price it high, stand firm and let the chips fall where they may.
> 
> Another reason you don't want to do that is, you don't want to give them any ammunition legally.  The CIRA dispute rules say that you cannot register a domain simply to prevent access to the domain to another business.  You want to establish that the price is the same, regardless of who the buyer is, not give them the impression that your pricing is jacked up just for a certain buyer.
> 
> ...



This is a very interesting line of discussion!

Thinking and knowing who the buyer is are two very different things. It is critically important to know who the buyer is and if you sell blind you will eventually be blind sided but this is a complicated issue that is likely determined by each persons own knowledge negotiation skills and objectives. 

Brokers, well lol, I have played the part of a broker a time or two but I have never used one. I don't hire guys to do things I can do myself (if I enjoy doing them) They exist for anonymity yes but anonymity is a domainers enemy. 

RIM says just "set your price" and let the chips fall where they may BUT that puts me in a place where I may not want or need to be. I don't need to set a price. The market can do that. I want the buyer to dictate the price of the domain name and when I say this I mean the buyer ultimately decides how much or how badly they want or need what you the seller has. They can't get it anywhere else remember. Something close maybe but not what you have! I like to let the buyer show me how much they are prepared to pay just to get my attention. I am busy with many names! The buyer dictates the price not the seller. Let their need  creates the value...you will know when the # is right 

The CIRA ammunition part I do not agree with at all. I can charge what I want to who I want. The only thing I can not do is infringe? Last time I went to a movie I noticed they charged different prices for seniors, students, children and adults all for the same movie! I can do the same thing with my domain name should I so choose.   

And negotiating over the sales tax...not a good idea ...taxes apply based on law and #s...if they apply they apply and child be charged regardless of who the buyer is so this is not a negotiation point at all. 

What I tell people is pretty simple. I don't do business over the Internet with strangers emailing me from disposable email addresses. If you want to do business introduce yourself and your ideas otherwise there is nothing to consider. I would like to at the very least conform the guy I am selling to is not my direct competitor! 

Just my thoughts on IDing the buyer


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

rlm said:
			
		

> The only downside is that you're pointing potential end-user type buyers to a forum where sellers discuss things you might not want end-users to see.



This was something i was thinking also


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 22, 2020)

The main board is open to everyone, remember it will index on google.

But they cannot see the hidden forums where we can talk about all the juicy stuff.
We will probably get a number of hidden forums depending on member status so there will always be places we can discuss things that are not meant for general consumption.


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> I have been praised and critiqued for this approach but nowadays it is probably all I use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I can not stress how important it is to know who you are dealing with. Primarily for the purposes of defending your ownership should the person contacting you have concerns with respect to your ownership and use? I always ask people to clarify their interest   because you need to decide as a seller when to be on offence and when yto be on defence. Buyers can play tricks LOLOL


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## DomainTrader (Nov 22, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> THe main board is open to everyone but they cannot see the hidden forums where we can talk about all the juicy stuff.



LOL....i thought this part was public


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## MapleDots__ (Nov 22, 2020)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> I can not stress how important it is to know who you are dealing with. Primarily for the purposes of defending your ownership should the person contacting you have concerns with respect to your ownership and use? I always ask people to clarify their interest   because you need to decide as a seller when to be on offence and when yto be on defence. Buyers can play tricks LOLOL



Yeah, I put a tiny tidbit of legal at the end of the form so if facebook buys one of my domains I will just sick a big law firm on them to work for a commission. :lol:


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## rlm__ (Nov 23, 2020)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> I don't need to set a price. The market can do that. I want the buyer to dictate the price of the domain name and when I say this I mean the buyer ultimately decides how much or how badly they want or need what you the seller has.



You're approach is fine for you, and I think it may even be appropriate for certain domains in certain situations.  I have definitely used that approach.  One of my 6-figure .ca sales was that way.  But I think that works best when you've got a buyer who has an absolute hard-on for the domain as well as deep pockets, and probably only for a truly premium one-of-a-kind-must-have domain.  Otherwise I think that strategy puts up a wall, annoys the buyer and they may just become frustrated and go away. 

For less than ultra-premium domains I prefer to set my price.  I don't set it cheap, but I like to think its reasonable.  I never get people just taking my offers right away, it is almost always weeks if not months of mulling it over and trying to negotiate before they commit.  I like to feel like I'm being professional and willing to have a conversation.

And I wouldn't consider a single buyer making an offer as "letting the market setting the price".  That's one offer, not a market.

Also consider that a lot of people, myself included, will simply move on if you're unwilling to give a price, I'm not into playing games.  When you're clearly a domain reseller - I feel you should have a price when its requested.

Anyway, I think your approach is fine for high end domains.  Not the 4-figure run of the mill domains.  Your way may be less work, but I wonder whether you're losing sales or maximizing the price.



			
				DomainTrader said:
			
		

> The CIRA ammunition part I do not agree with at all. I can charge what I want to who I want. The only thing I can not do is infringe? Last time I went to a movie I noticed they charged different prices for seniors, students, children and adults all for the same movie! I can do the same thing with my domain name should I so choose.



Well if a dispute panel had evidence that you quoted one price to a random guy, then quoted another price to some big corporation, they can interpret that any way they want, and one interpretation is that it is evidence of bad faith, that you're trying to prevent a specific company from registering their mark, or that you're trying to disrupt their business, etc... That is open to interpretation by a panel of lawyers who are not always domainer friendly.  I wouldn't do it.  Of course you don't have that problem if you never quote a price.



			
				DomainTrader said:
			
		

> And negotiating over the sales tax...not a good idea ...taxes apply based on law and #s...if they apply they apply and child be charged regardless of who the buyer is so this is not a negotiation point at all.



Yeah,  I don't negotiate over sales tax.  I am always clear that its price + taxes.  But a lot of domainers dont, and sales platforms won't even allow you to do that.  It's one price, tax in.  And I don't like it.  Taxes vary based on your province, so I just cover my ass with the + Taxes on any price quotes.  My point was that taxation is an excuse to point out that you need to know who the real buyer is.



			
				DomainTrader said:
			
		

> What I tell people is pretty simple. I don't do business over the Internet with strangers emailing me from disposable email addresses.



Eh, it doesn't bother me.  I understand why they do it, because they're afraid you'll jack up the price if you know why they want it.  So I tend to let them have it.  I usually know or have a strong suspicion of who they are anyways, so from my perspective, it puts me in a stronger position to let them think they're fooling me. Anything to let them _think_ they're winning.  And why would I want to start negotiations with making them admit to being a sneaky little *******?  Of course this is really predicated on me being pretty sure I know who they are.  Maybe I put more effort into research, I'm pretty sure I have better tools than anyone else anyways.  My research tools have always been what I consider my trade secrets - it helps me when it comes to buying and selling.  And if I'm truly stumped as to who the buyer is, then I'll decide how to handle it depending on the domain and what it means to me personally.  The more personally attached I am to a domain, the more likely I'll take your approach.  The less attached, the more likely I'll just price it.

Oh, and in regards to the potential legal issues of not knowing who they buyer is?  Yes, you could argue that is a theoretical problem, if you're doing something wrong.  But if I'm not doing anything wrong, what are they going to do?  The reality is, I've never found it to be a problem, especially in .CA.  For one, .CA are typically priced where its not worth the legal fees and time for that to happen, they'll just buy the domain.  Two, I think CIRA dispute rules are better for the domainer than for other TLDs.  Maybe you've had a different experience, but for me, its been a non-issue.


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## rlm__ (Nov 23, 2020)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> I think we met originally at TRAFFIC 2002 in Miami



Are you talking about TRAFFIC 2004 in Delray Beach?  That was the very first one.


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## rlm__ (Nov 23, 2020)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> Am I missing something
> Was the name posted before
> I mean not all two word domains are recreated equal right
> Or is this a guess how many jelly beans are in the jar game



No, I just didn't want it permanently archived, so after the sale I redacted the name. The words you are looking for are mobile and care.


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