# Results of Meeting with WHC.ca & Sibername



## MapleDots__ (Dec 10, 2020)

The TBR part of the conversation is posted in the TBR Section
https://dn.ca/viewtopic.php?id=262

This topic is about the rest of the meeting...

We had some problems with the connection and he had a number of his team participating. I was impressed how eager they were to participate with us. I think they understand we are banding together under the DN.ca brand and we will be a force in the .ca namespace moving forward.

1. Number one for me was to get better pricing for our members, especially on renewal rates and Emil guaranteed he can match or beat anyone's price on renewals. I mentioned the $10.99 renewal at Canspace and he said no problems beating that for our members.

2. He said they use the same backend software as Canspace but they are building on top of it and he was eager to find out which bulk tools we needed to get the job done.

3. He is working on providing us with proper landing pages accessible right from our account.

4. Connecting the TBR and Domain account is a given.

5. From what I understand they are working on connecting a number of services similar to what godaddy is doing in their space.

6. We discussed an automated script to bulk domain moving. So it would be easy to move 1000 domains in if needed.

7. He offered WHC hosting services for dn.ca for free and given the hosting issues I had last week that would be nice.

8. I mentioned that we are looking for representatives from all companies in the Canadian space to join the forum and he was quite open to volunteering his crew.

9. He was against charging a subscription fee for wholesale pricing like godaddy does.

10. Looks to me like they want to be Webhost>Registrar>TBR>Wholesale>Domaining Services>Landers etc.

11. Looks like the other extensions are also in the works for better pricing.


Getting tired will post more soon...

I think we are in for some exciting times


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## jaydub__ (Dec 10, 2020)

Nice work Frank and thanks for laying the groundwork. I found their domain management not friendly but I will keep an open mind on that front and see how it all works out.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 10, 2020)

I will tag [notify]efalcon[/notify] for this topic.

It shows I posted it this morning but I wrote the post late last night after writing a bunch of new forum code so I was pretty tired, will add items today as they come to me.


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## RedRider (Dec 10, 2020)

Who are they using for the other extensions? I presume tucows?


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## FM__ (Dec 11, 2020)

RedRider said:
			
		

> Who are they using for the other extensions? I presume tucows?



Sibername is ICANN accredited, so they will probably start using that accreditation or transfer it.


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## efalcon__ (Dec 12, 2020)

Thanks Frank for taking the time to speak to us the other day! It's great to finally be connecting with the Canadian domaining community.

As discussed with Frank, we'll be working hard in the next few weeks to earn your business and help make WHC the go-to place for easy .CA bulk domain management (including for transfer-ins), competitive rates, and a leading TBR system. If you manage more than 75 .CA domains please reach out to [notify]gassan[/notify] on this forum or directly to our sales team at WHC.CA for automatic Gold tier pricing on renewals without any additional "membership" fees.

As of last week, WHC has completed Sibername's ICANN accreditation's assignment process, so we are now officially ICANN accredited as well  *DANCE* ! You can expect more exciting developments in 2021.

What specific improvements would you like to see in Sibername's current TBR system and what specific features do you look for or enjoy in a domain management platform? We want to build a better domain management system for everyone, so your feedback is appreciated and will help us prioritize features as we move into 2021.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 12, 2020)

efalcon said:
			
		

> Thanks Frank for taking the time to speak to us the other day! It's great to finally be connecting with the Canadian domaining community.



Thank you Emil, it was a pleasure talking with you





			
				efalcon said:
			
		

> As discussed with Frank, we'll be working hard in the next few weeks to earn your business and help make WHC the go-to place for easy .CA bulk domain management (including for transfer-ins), competitive rates, and a leading TBR system. If you manage more than 75 .CA domains please reach out to @gassan on this forum or directly to our sales team at WHC.CA for automatic Gold tier pricing on renewals without any additional "membership" fees.



I just purchased a domain and tried to do a masked forward and was told by your team it was not possible without upgrading. I found that odd, I never had to upgrade anything to do a forward before. SO I guess that would be a subscription of sorts...


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## jaydub__ (Dec 12, 2020)

Is it a one time $1.49 fee or is it a charge each time per domain?


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## DomainRecap (Dec 13, 2020)

jaydub said:
			
		

> Is it a one time $1.49 fee or is it a charge each time per domain?



As far as I've figured out testing the system, it's *$1.49 per domain per month*. The "Domain Manager" option is on a per-domain basis, so naturally any upgrade would be per-domain as well and that's how it worked when I tested it. 

Again, WHC is more of a hosting company that also registers domains, and as such, a lot of their nickel-n-diming is related towards a hosting customer with 1-2 domains, not someone with 100+ domains.

If WHC absorbs all of Siber's domains, then these policies need to change as you're catering to a totally different audience who will transfer out at their earliest convenience.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 13, 2020)

Playing around with the control panel I remember why I could not use it.

If I have 500 .ca domains I cannot pay 500 times for a control panel and basics like forwarding, masked forwarding and things like that have to work. I spent a half hour going through the control panel and the new domain I purchased is still sitting there because I have no way to forward it to my lander unless I switch nameservers and point it at a service.


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## jaydub__ (Dec 13, 2020)

Yikes! That certainly won’t work for domain investors.



			
				DomainRecap said:
			
		

> As far as I've figured out testing the system, it's *$1.49 per domain per month*. The "Domain Manager" option is on a per-domain basis, so naturally any upgrade would be per-domain as well and that's how it worked when I tested it.


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## jaydub__ (Dec 13, 2020)

This won’t make sense for any investors I don’t think.



			
				MapleDots said:
			
		

> Playing around with the control panel I remember why I could not use it.
> 
> If I have 500 .ca domains I cannot pay 500 times for a control panel and basics like forwarding, masked forwarding and things like that have to work. I spent a half hour going through the control panel and the new domain I purchased is still sitting there because I have no way to forward it to my lander unless I switch nameservers and point it at a service.


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## Spex (Dec 14, 2020)

I agree with everyone here, the back-end needs to be streamlined. We shouldn't have to buy or activate additional services just to perform basic tasks.

Just look at other mainstream registrars (out of respect for WHC, don't want to name the competition in this thread)...basic tools for setting nameservers, DNS records, forwarding, etc are available to anyone whether you own 1 name or 1000 names


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 14, 2020)

I imagine if you get a hosting account you would be able to attach each domain name and use cPanel to administrate it in any way you wanted. Some cons to this are...

1. Is there a limit to how many domains?

2. Very time consuming to administrate each domain separately

3. No bulk tools in cPanel (that I am aware of)

I did talk to Emil and he said he had a solution but you would have to get a hosting account.

I will be signing up for that to put it through its paces and I will report back here.


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## DomainRecap (Dec 14, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> I did talk to Emil and he said he had a solution but you would have to get a hosting account.



Gee, big surprise there. 

And even so this "solution" is far from seamless, as you have to manually add each domain to your hosting account/CPanel, then also manually set up each redirect. 

It's no different than having a hosting account with any vendor, adding them as secondary domains, and then redirecting your domains using CPanel. A lot of manual work.


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## Spex (Dec 15, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> I just purchased a domain and tried to do a masked forward and was told by your team it was not possible without upgrading. I found that odd, I never had to upgrade anything to do a forward before. SO I guess that would be a subscription of sorts...



I just tried this with a domain (registered elsewhere) that I currently have hosted with WHC and it's not very easy

Setting up a redirect is simple, you just input the other URL into a field and you're good....But that's where the simple stuff ends.

Couldn't find an option to set up masking...no checkbox or anything so I hopped into chat. They told me it wasn't possible to do it via the cPanel interface and instead I would have to modify the htaccess file to specify the masking.

The rep asked if I wanted them to do it for me and I said ok. A few minutes later, they were done. So I go into the file manager to check and instead of modifying the htaccess file, they added an index.html file with a frameset as a Frankenstein solution to masking

So it's a multistep process of

- Get a WHC hosting account
- Add the domain to said hosting account
- Set up a redirect
- Modify the htaccess file -OR- create an index.html file
- Cross your fingers

... and even the chat guy contradicted himself when he spoke about the htaccess but ended up creating an index.html

My nameservers haven't propagated the change to WHC's servers yet so I'll report back if there's an issue


Would be nice if there was just a neat, little drop-down and checkbox option in the domain manager like at Namespro


I don't mean to be a jerk, but I think WHC should register a domain at Namespro to see what their domain manager looks like and just copy it


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 15, 2020)

It makes godaddy look good, it's a couple of keyclicks to forward and one more to mask.


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## Spex (Dec 15, 2020)

And Namespro too. Forgot to mention it in my post, but the reason I had to host the name at WHC in the first place is because it's registered at Rebel and Rebel doesn't offer masking either


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## Spex (Dec 16, 2020)

Surprise, surprise WHC's Frankenstein workaround didn't work...there is no masking at all. So it's back to the WHC chat to get it sorted out

I'm spending wayyy too much time with their helpdesk lately for very simple things


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 16, 2020)

I have about 300 domains coming due in January and I need to make a decision where to put them.

I am going to register one at Canspace and report back to see if theirs is any less cumbersome

Again, there is a lot of beefs about godaddy but they have the tools to properly manage domains which goes to show that right now WHC is more a hosting company than a registrar.

The whole thing about Rebel surprises me, I would have figured they have the tools.

Anyone know about dynadot? - how are their bulk tools?


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## Spex (Dec 16, 2020)

It's official, WHC does not support masking, even though other support reps said it was possible by modifying the htaccess file.

So that's at least 2 registrars that don't, the other being Rebel

Sometimes saving a few bucks isn't worth it depending on what your needs are



> Ticket #314657
> 
> Hi (Spex),
> 
> ...


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## DomainRecap (Dec 16, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> I have about 300 domains coming due in January and I need to make a decision where to put them.



You might want to test out NamesPro.ca as I have had good luck there with zero headaches and no nickel-n-diming. They even offer a discount for transfers.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 16, 2020)

DomainRecap said:
			
		

> You might want to test out NamesPro.ca as I have had good luck there with zero headaches and no nickel-n-diming. They even offer a discount for transfers.



Without bulk tools it is definitely a no go.

I just downloaded a csv file from godaddy and it contains everything, even the transfer codes.
GoDaddy bulk tools are phenomenal when they work properly. Sometimes they fool around with the interface and screw things up but I think the only better bulk tools are at uniregistry.

NamePro.ca ?? HeHe I could not imagine having to call or email for transfer codes.

I think Canada is in desperate need for a real registrar that take domains seriously and provides the tools to gain the trust of the domaining community.


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## DomainRecap (Dec 16, 2020)

I know what you mean, but I look at that negative as a security positive in case your email gets jacked.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 16, 2020)

DomainRecap said:
			
		

> I know what you mean, but I look at that negative as a security positive in case your email gets jacked.



GoDaddy security on my account...

1. Account Password

2. Two Factor - Text

3. PIN Protected

4. Google Authenticator (changes every minute)

Good luck anyone getting through that. The only time I have heard of any godaddy compromises is when all the security was not activated.

All that said, I would still prefer to have a local Canadian Company host my domains but basics like forwarding have to be included.


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## DomainRecap (Dec 16, 2020)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> Good luck anyone getting through that.



None of that matters if a GoDaddy CSR just gives your account away to some bad actor, as has happened a lot, including a couple of high profile cases where companies lost access to their primary domains. 

No one is out there in a black hoodie trying to hack your GD account, it's a hive full of 3rd-world children calling in and pretending to be you, and yep, you've lost your password and your phone and all your personal items have been stolen. And yes, they know your address and phone number and a lot more from the Dark Web. 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/godad...scams-in-cryptocurrency-exchange-attack-wave/

That's the key to stealing anything - find the weak link, which in this case is a guy on the phone saying "Good Morning. GoDaddy Support - how can I help you today?".


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 16, 2020)

That cannot happen if you have all the security engaged, when I call in the GoDaddy reps can do nothing for me until I give them the authenticator number etc. If you do not have all that active then the reps can help you just by asking for the pin.

For my account every single time I call they they ask for my account and then my authenticator number. Without that, the text verification, pin etc they will not proceed with any request.

So if you activate it you have security and what is mentioned in the article will not happen. The problem is godaddy does not force that security onto the clients and that is how this fraud happens. If they forced all accounts to use all the security methods then it would be very difficult to circumvent the security setting.

You can talk security until the sky caves in, you have to force customers to use it, simply having it does not do any good unless everyone is forced to use it.


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## rlm__ (Dec 16, 2020)

Couple thoughts on this topic:

WHC as a registrar: I also find their interface annoyingly slow to load.  Every page load, ugh, another wait. It's brutal.

Masking:  Why would anyone want to url mask?  It's frowned upon as its a suspicious tactic.  Why not just redirect?  And I would think you could do anything you need to do with your domains using dns in combination with any cheap-ass shared hosting account.  If you need any help/explanation how to do it, just message me to discuss.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 16, 2020)

OK here is why masking is handy...

You want to point 1000 domains to a lander but you want to do it in one step instead of many. 
Point all thousand domains at the lander, mask so if someone types in mydomain.ca that stays in the address bar.

For me its ideal because I tend to point my domains at a new online store if I open one, my lander or anything else I decide on.
It is just the quickest way to manipulate a whole bunch of domains without too much bother.

I know how to do all the dns entries, nameservers etc but nothing is as quick a masked forward.

For you it is ideal because you leave your domains pointed at your lander so you made all those dns changes one at a time through a hosting account. I cannot do that because I have 4 sets of of domains. 

My Public Domains
My Private Domains
My Business Domains
My Sons Domains

All in all that is a few thousand domains and without proper bulk tools it becomes unmanageable. Sure if I leave all the settings and do it once I can do it with a hosting account and get it done on a weekend but that assumes I leave the domains as is. 

If I launch a new store it is not uncommon for me to point 1000 domains at it for a couple of months to gain traffic. I will mask the domain to show the original URL in the address bar and then I load a java script so that on the first click it changes to my store address.

PS. When I mask the domains I put the word contact as the tab header so anyone visiting the domain knows to contact the owner of the webpage.


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## rlm__ (Dec 17, 2020)

Whether you want to redirect or mask, its all just trivial code on the hosting end.  I just prefer to handle it myself and not be dependent on any registrar for functionality, especially since we're all stuck dealing with multiple registrars.  This way I have one place to manage all my domain functionality.


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## DomainRecap (Dec 22, 2020)

And the WHC Support team produces yet another winner. 

I have been experiencing massive slowdowns on my WHC hosting (Enterprise), and I check CPanel and see that the HD is redlining, so I create a ticket and here is their ever-so-helpful response:

*Indeed, The disk space being almost full will hinder the performance of your hosting service. Try to delete some files that are not needed. *

   > 

Okay... I think my site is a few hundred MB, and they seem to think I'm the only one on the entire server, so I would recommend WHC upgrade from their current HD they bought in 1991. I guess deleting a few MBs is going to save the server, so I better get to it!

Even back when I was an on extremely low-end, ultra-cheap hosting package from HostGator, when I had HD capacity issues on the server they were always quick to locate the FILEZ Barons and cut down their capacity and access, leading to at least manageable performance. 



I'll tell you this, when your Enterprise support is way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way below that of discount hosting at HostGator, you have got a BIG problem.


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## FM__ (Dec 26, 2020)

DomainRecap said:
			
		

> I have been experiencing massive slowdowns on my WHC hosting (Enterprise), and I check CPanel and see that the HD is redlining, so I create a ticket and here is their ever-so-helpful response:.


Cpanel should also be showing you were the space is being used, often it's the webserver logs that eat up most of the space.


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## MapleDots__ (Dec 26, 2020)

I had to move our server last night, it went from speedy to slow as a dog.

Will see how this new one does.


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## FM__ (Jan 21, 2021)

Looks like the ICANN accreditation of Sibername has now been transferred to WHC, congratulations.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hosting-canada-now-icann-accredited-145600493.html



> Web Hosting Canada (WHC)
> Tue, January 19, 2021, 9:56 AM·2 min read
> 
> MONTREAL, Jan. 19, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Web Hosting Canada (WHC) has officially completed its ICANN accreditation, becoming only the 18th accredited organization in Canada, and one of the only CIRA and ICANN accredited domain providers whose primary focus is the Canadian market.



When I went to check on the list of accredited registrars, I saw that the name of the registrar Sibername has now become "7081936 Canada Inc.", which is WHC and it shows their URL and email.

_[updated 2021-01-22 09:15: corrected typo]_


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> Playing around with the control panel I remember why I could not use it.
> 
> If I have 500 .ca domains I cannot pay 500 times for a control panel and basics like forwarding, masked forwarding and things like that have to work. I spent a half hour going through the control panel and the new domain I purchased is still sitting there because I have no way to forward it to my lander unless I switch nameservers and point it at a service.



Brutes


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> It makes godaddy look good.



That says a lot
All one need hear


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

Spex said:
			
		

> Surprise, surprise WHC's Frankenstein workaround didn't work...there is no masking at all. So it's back to the WHC chat to get it sorted out
> 
> I'm spending wayyy too much time with their helpdesk lately for very simple things



So much for savings
Time is more valuable than money


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

Spex said:
			
		

> It's official, WHC does not support masking, even though other support reps said it was possible by modifying the htaccess file.
> 
> So that's at least 2 registrars that don't, the other being Rebel
> 
> Sometimes saving a few bucks isn't worth it depending on what your needs are



URL masking is basic stuff!


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

It’s coming soon
All.ca will help


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

MapleDots said:
			
		

> only time I have heard of any godaddy compromises is when all the security was not activated.



Or social engineering 
Just call GD


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## DomainTrader (Jan 24, 2021)

DomainRecap said:
			
		

> None of that matters if a GoDaddy CSR just gives your account away to some bad actor, as has happened a lot, including a couple of high profile cases where companies lost access to their primary domains.
> 
> No one is out in their a black hoodie trying to hack your GD account, it's a hive full of 3rd-world children calling in and pretending to be you, and yep, you've lost your password and your phone and all your personal items have been stolen. And yes, they know your address and phone number and a lot more from the Dark Web.
> 
> ...




What he said ^


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## FM__ (Jan 25, 2021)

DomainTrader said:
			
		

> It’s coming soon
> All.ca will help



I gotta ask. Are you involved in building it, [notify]DomainTrader[/notify]?


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## efalcon__ (Feb 5, 2021)

Hi again everyone and thanks for the great feedback! It's been a little while since I've posted here but just wanted to give a quick update that we've started work on Domains 2.0 and most features discussed here are on the radar and on the product roadmap.

TBR, standard & stealth forwarding, and zone templates & import/export (among many other DNS & domains features) will make it in our v2 WHC release, due soon. I recognize that some of these features are already standard with some other providers today (as a hoster pivoting to domains, there is some catch up work to do), but I am confident that our new platform will start bridging that gap and set us up to deliver more power features even faster, without increasing pricing (which we guarantee is lower than whatever you are paying today if you manage over 75 .CA domains).

And last but not least, if you're passionate about domains, have experience growing successful products, and interested in actively shaping Canada's domains experience of the future, we've opened a new Domains Product Manager role and would love to hear from you!


PS. [notify]DomainRecap[/notify] please reach out to feedback@whc.ca if you're still having performance issue with your hosting's performance or support. HDD's have been phased out from our infrastructure long ago and if there's one thing that SSD NVMe storage with LiteSpeed caching does is deliver fast I/O, so if you're experiencing slowdowns there must be something else up.


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## RedRider (Feb 9, 2021)

Thank you Emil  @=


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