.CA Finance.ca Sold by Irex (1 Viewing)

From: Finance.ca sold via Escrow.com – DomainGang

The ultra-premium, Canadian domain name Finance.ca, appears to have been sold.

The finance-related domain was registered in 2000 and was in the possession of Irex corporation, aka DomainNames.ca.

Selling such a premium domain utilized the services of Escrow.com. Finance.ca is currently managed by the Escrow.com Domain Concierge account.

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Price is unknown.

Finance.ca sold via Escrow.com – DomainGang

They may be open to CIRA taking away the domain name.....

According to the WHOIS:

Registrant Name: Neil Katz
Registrant Organization: Escrow.com
Registrant Street: 180 Montgomery St
Registrant City: San Francisco
Registrant State/Province: CA
Registrant Postal Code: 94104
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.8885118600

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How are they handling the .ca Nexus Requirements?

Neil Katz appears to be an Australian:

About Escrow.com, The Online Escrow Service - Escrow.com
https://au.linkedin.com/in/neillkatz

and Escrow.com is a US entity, as far as I know. If they don't meet any of the requirements listed at:

Canadian Presence Requirements for Registrants – CIRA

then CIRA might send the domain to TBR!

I won't be the one to report it to CIRA, but those registrars doing TBR auctions would be highly motivated to see that name end up deleted, to have a shot at a big payday.

Best to do direct legal contracts, or use a Canadian law firm, in my opinion.

Maybe Canadian?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-katz-blakes

LCM said:

Maybe Canadian?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-katz-blakes

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That's a different person. The one I linked to above:

https://au.linkedin.com/in/neillkatz

specifically mentions that he's CFO at Freelancer.com, which owns Escrow.com.

Since Escrow.com provides $CAD support, they must have a CAD bank account. Furthermore, they charge GST/HST on their fees. So I tend to believe they must have a Canadian presence of some sort. They can't collect GST without having a GST #, right?

rlm said:

Since Escrow.com provides $CAD support, they must have a CAD bank account. Furthermore, they charge GST/HST on their fees. So I tend to believe they must have a Canadian presence of some sort. They can't collect GST without having a GST #, right?

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Non-Canadian firms can have CAD bank accounts (just like Canadian firms can have USD bank accounts). Non-Canadian firms also can get GST numbers.

The .ca presence requirements document is quite detailed as to what is required (see section 2):

Canadian Presence Requirements for Registrants – CIRA

GeorgeK said:

Non-Canadian firms also can get GST numbers.

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I didn't realize that, but yes, you're right. I guess with the new rules for cross border taxation that foreign companies might want to comply with the GST/HST side of sales, without being fully incorporated in Canada and then having to file corporate taxes too.

I found this statement from CRA: A corporation that is not incorporated in Canada may still be considered to be resident in Canada under general legal principles.

So if you're paying Canadian taxes and CRA considers you resident, then I'd have to think CIRA wouldn't be deleting their domains. Regardless of the rules, I think CIRA bends them if they think its the right thing to do and can get away with it without it becoming a big spectacle (as CIRA avoids any negative publicity at all costs, they don't want anyone looking too closely at them). So if CRA would recognize them as "resident" I think CIRA would too.

But there's no doubt there's some room for doubt there, and it probably wouldn't take too much to fix the issue anyway.

rlm said:

So if CRA would recognize them as "resident" I think CIRA would too.

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I don't think that would be the case, as they wouldn't fit section 2(4) of the requirements:

Canadian Presence Requirements for Registrants – CIRA

4. Corporation. A corporation under the laws of Canada or any province or territory of Canada;

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which has a specific meaning (i.e. incorporated federally, or provincially, or in one of the territories). A foreign corporation doesn't meet that requirement, even if it has a physical office here.

GeorgeK said:

I don't think that would be the case, as they wouldn't fit section 2(4) of the requirements:

Canadian Presence Requirements for Registrants – CIRA



which has a specific meaning (i.e. incorporated federally, or provincially, or in one of the territories). A foreign corporation doesn't meet that requirement, even if it has a physical office here.

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2. Canadian Presence Requirements. On and after November 8, 2000 only the
following individuals and entities will be permitted to apply to CIRA (through a CIRA certified
registrar) for the registration of, and to hold and maintain the registration of, a .ca domain name:
(a) Canadian citizen. A Canadian citizen of the age of majority under the laws of
the province or territory in Canada in which he or she resides or last resided;
(b) Permanent resident. A permanent resident as defined in the Immigration and
Refugee Protection Act, (Canada) S.C. 2001, c. 27, as amended from time to time,
who is ordinarily resident in Canada (as defined below) and of the age of majority
under the laws of the province or territory in Canada in which he or she resides or
last resided; (amended June 5, 2003)
(c) Legal representative. An executor, administrator or other legal representative of
a Person listed in paragraph (a) and (b) above;

Since Escrow.com is acting as (c) Legal representative for the owner, as long as that owner is (a) or (b), then it should be fine, no? Nothing says that the Legal representative must meet the CPR.

rlm said:

2. Canadian Presence Requirements. On and after November 8, 2000 only the
following individuals and entities will be permitted to apply to CIRA (through a CIRA certified
registrar) for the registration of, and to hold and maintain the registration of, a .ca domain name:
(a) Canadian citizen. A Canadian citizen of the age of majority under the laws of
the province or territory in Canada in which he or she resides or last resided;
(b) Permanent resident. A permanent resident as defined in the Immigration and
Refugee Protection Act, (Canada) S.C. 2001, c. 27, as amended from time to time,
who is ordinarily resident in Canada (as defined below) and of the age of majority
under the laws of the province or territory in Canada in which he or she resides or
last resided; (amended June 5, 2003)
(c) Legal representative. An executor, administrator or other legal representative of
a Person listed in paragraph (a) and (b) above;

Since Escrow.com is acting as (c) Legal representative for the owner, as long as that owner is (a) or (b), then it should be fine, no? Nothing says that the Legal representative must meet the CPR.

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I don't believe they're acting for either party (they're an independent third party, holding the domain name in their own name; see: Domain Concierge Service - Escrow.com ), nor are they lawyers. I wouldn't want to test that theory --- better just to do it "cleanly" from the beginning, in my opinion (too late for this transaction -- hopefully they update WHOIS soon, but others might learn something from this thread). Or CIRA could update their rules, to explicitly provide a safe harbour for foreign escrow companies....

P.S. Also, the "Legal representative" didn't apply for corporations (and presumably the buyer is a company (gotta avoid the HST!), and the seller was a corporation).

GeorgeK said:

I don't believe they're acting for either party (they're an independent third party, holding the domain name in their own name; see: Domain Concierge Service - Escrow.com ), nor are they lawyers. I wouldn't want to test that theory --- better just to do it "cleanly" from the beginning, in my opinion (too late for this transaction -- hopefully they update WHOIS soon, but others might learn something from this thread). Or CIRA could update their rules, to explicitly provide a safe harbour for foreign escrow companies....

P.S. Also, the "Legal representative" didn't apply for corporations (and presumably the buyer is a company (gotta avoid the HST!), and the seller was a corporation).

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Aha. I found the link Licenses and Complaints - Escrow.com, and at the bottom:

Canadian Payments Inc. trading as escrow.com (Licensee number: 904468) is the issuer of the Escrow Services and is a related body corporate of Internet Escrow Services, Inc. (which operates the escrow.com service in the United States and elsewhere). Canadian Payments Inc. has a registered office at #250 - 997 Seymour St., Vancouver, BC, V6B 3M1 and is regulated by Revenu Québec.

GeorgeK said:

P.S. Also, the "Legal representative" didn't apply for corporations (and presumably the buyer is a company (gotta avoid the HST!), and the seller was a corporation).

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And regarding this statement about GST/HST - using Escrow services outside of Canada does not relieve you of the obligation of collecting/remitting GST/HST. Escrow.com provides you a separate invoice for their fees which include GST/HST on it - but that is just for the fee portion, not the purchase price. Escrow.com is not the buyer so a Canadian corporation cannot use that as an excuse to avoid GST/HST.

I won't sell through escrow services without backing it up with my own invoice, you have to know who the buyer is in order to charge GST/HST appropriately. Otherwise, CRA will hold you responsible for paying the HST, although I don't know how they would determine the rate. I can't imagine being someone who avoids GST/HST and then getting audited and being told I owe GST/HST on the last 7 years of transactions...

If a buyer would refuse to reveal their identity and address, then I suppose I would charge them the highest HST in Canada, which is 15%, just to cover my own ass (not that it has ever happened).

rlm said:

Aha. I found the link Licenses and Complaints - Escrow.com, and at the bottom:

Canadian Payments Inc. trading as escrow.com (Licensee number: 904468) is the issuer of the Escrow Services and is a related body corporate of Internet Escrow Services, Inc. (which operates the escrow.com service in the United States and elsewhere). Canadian Payments Inc. has a registered office at #250 - 997 Seymour St., Vancouver, BC, V6B 3M1 and is regulated by Revenu Québec.

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Nice find! That would meet the .ca requirements (although it would have been more transparent had they used the corporate name and BC address, instead of the "trading name" and US address).

rlm said:

If a buyer would refuse to reveal their identity and address, then I suppose I would charge them the highest HST in Canada, which is 15%, just to cover my own ass (not that it has ever happened).

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Yup, that's why a buyer of a .ca should be a corporation that is HST registered, so that they can get the input tax credits. A "consumer" isn't going to be able to get the input tax credits, as opposed to a business. [although I suppose an unincorporated business can still register for the HST, to obtain the input tax credits]

Input tax credits - Canada.ca