CDRP Kay.ca - Decision = Dismissed (1.Viewing)

Esdiel said:

So you're certain that kay.ca and these other domains were indeed in the TBR drop on February 11th? My saved tbr lists don't go that far back.

Aside from the registrant saying she registered all these domains "on or about May 5, 2011", which is wrong like you pointed out, it's also strange if they were indeed on the drop on Feb 11th and yet all the registration dates show Feb 16th. Doesn't the registration date always reflect the day of the drop? Was it any different then, maybe the registration date only kicked in the day the paid?

Not much seems to check out here. Further complicated by the fact they first mention she "registered" the domains, and then they say she "acquired" them from MyID marketplace... and how it's an "online marketplace for the buying and selling of already registered domains."

I've mostly skimmed this decision but I'm confused AF. Might have to take my time to read this in it's entirety but it's possible it's just littered with mistakes (and maybe little white lies).

In any event, nice catch @theinvestor.

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@Esdiel I know they were in TBR because I backordered them.

DomainRecap said:

Of course it is, and these CDRPs are a very, very interesting look behind the MyID curtain.

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And there are more CDRP’s that have connections and the common denominator is myID.ca.

Maybe all this has something to do with why the case isn't listed on cira's website anymore? lol

Probably not but could be. Been meaning to look at the other purged cases to try and identify a pattern.

theinvestor said:

Well, under the parties it stated registrant purchased the domain on February 16th,2011. (Through TBR).

Then if you read further below under the position of the registrant it mentions they purchased the domain from myid.ca marketplace on or about May 5th,2011. They then mention other 3 letter domain they purchased on that same day (dhe.ca, ihp.ca and uae.ca) which were also part of TBR run on February 11th.

It’s interesting that even in a dispute there is inaccurate information being presented. Wondering what the chances of someone being able to purchase 4 different domains through myid.ca marketplace and all of them being part of a TBR run months earlier.

To claim they purchase generic and description domains but as we know years later there was a dispute against them for whatsapp.ca.

So it leads me to question were these domains purchased in TBR or myid marketplace and why is the buyer making up this story of purchasing through myid marketplace? If they were truly picked up in TBR. Who actually registered these domains on February 16th? I believe they are the true owner and when they got wind of a dispute they got transferred to this Hiba Alnatour with some address in Beirut, Lebanon which in a different dispute didn’t even match.

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The dates all seem reasonable to me. The complainant states it was reg'd Feb 16, 2011. The respondant states that they bought it May 5th, 2011 - not as a new registration, but as a marketplace purchase. So that is plausible.

The fact that they purchased multiple domains in the same transaction is also not unusual. I often try to buy domains in bulk. So if the seller indeed had good prices, I'd have probably bought many as well. Is it a little odd that every domain they mentioned was from the same TBR run, probably.

So as far as it being a suspicious story - well - yes, that's a different story. A required step of the CDRP should be to first pass a RIV to verify the registrant has a right to own the domain in the first place. That would just add a significant amount of time to a CDRP though.

And I don't think CIRA really wants to be involved in policing a registrar, I'm sure it would take blatant and clear evidence of wrongdoing for them to do anything. CIRA also doesn't feel its their responsibility to monitor or police the ethics of how TBR auctions are run either. They say that's more of a legal issue, not a registry issue.

And sadly, lets face it, its too easy to game the system. If my daughter started a registrar, that wouldn't stop me from being able to bid in those auctions. Its too easy for people to acquire a Canadian presence by way of a corporation, or using a front man who has a Canadian presence. How the hell would you ever police that? Any non-canadian registrant motivated to do so can easily circumvent the CPR, legally.

So while I agree that numerous suspicious things happen with MyID registrants, I feel like there is not a single thing we can do. Its almost comical, to be honest. If the owners of MyID were trying to cover their tracks for registering, selling and even bidding against their own customers, as many have quietly or not-so quietly surmised for years, you'd think they'd find a less suspicious way to do it than to utilize friends or relatives with foreign addresses. If it were me, I'd find a friend with a very common name like Mike Smith or David Jones, with a Toronto address, and cut him a small slice of the pie to be the front man. Keep it simple, blend into the background, don't attract attention. I guess that's just not how these guys roll.

Also note that due to the ability to be labeled a serial offender in regards to blatantly infringing domains, its wise for people who use a front man to occasionally change those frontmen once they lose a CDRP. So the real owner of these domains is probably just working his way through his list of trusted relatives, grandma, aunt, cousin, mom, sibling, you name it. You could probably put together a list of all CDRP's with suspicious foreign registrants, start connecting the dots, and see that pattern taking place. Lose a CDRP or two? Abandon the registrant, find a new front man. Now I haven't done that research, but it wouldn't surprise anyone in the least of that's what was happening.

So yes, I can't disagree that the provenance and storyline behind the domains in question are likely fudged for the sake of the CDRP response. Comically so based on some CDRPs we've seen. But I think that's about the only satisfaction we'll get out of pursuing it, just a good laugh. Its bugged me for almost two decades. I'm kinda getting to the point of letting it go now as I realize its futile. The reality is, someone found the loophole and beat us to the punch by about 20 years... Kudos to them, I guess. If they've been doing what we think they've been doing, its likely not even violating the terms of their CIRA agreement. It may be violating the spirit of the terms, but not actually violating the terms. Its too easy to create the separation required to steer clear of trouble.

Or maybe its all 100% legit and exactly as specified in every CDRP. Maybe we just like a good conspiracy theory, LOL.

The right decision based on the facts I read, the Complainant made an overreach with a soft trademark argument and no proof of bad faith. Part which stuck out to me is the Complainant felt they 'should have' been able to buy the domain for $2500. Pretty arrogant. Great arguments in there by Zak which apply to any generic domain, imo. That is why you get a good lawyer when you have a domain you think is worth defending.

rlm said:

Maybe we just like a good conspiracy theory,

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I need more conspiracy theories as my old ones are starting to come through.

On a side note, I have added an extra 2 hours to my days just to read your posts. They are normally long but always a great read and well informative.

theinvestor said:

The problem is no matter what gets uncovered no one is going to investigate how a business is run. CIRA is not interested in that either. I already know if more were to get uncovered about this what excuses the registrar would give.

Those domains were never paid for so they were held in a hold account and eventually transferred to this user which they bought. Pretty coincidental that all those names were part of same TBR and purchased through marketplace on same day. It’s just BS sorry.

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In some defense of MyID - I do see domains dropping from MyID that had resale value. With some research, I could probably make a list of these domains. Just don't have time for that any time soon.

Nafti said:

I need more conspiracy theories as my old ones are starting to come through.

On a side note, I have added an extra 2 hours to my days just to read your posts. They are normally long but always a great read and well informative.

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LOL. You're right, I can get very wordy for the sake of trying to be thorough.