When someone's clearly not Canadian (2 Viewing)

Eric

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Topics
3
Posts
22
Likes
7
I found .ca domains where the seller is clearly not canadian, I checked whois, forsalelink, facebook, ip address and everything links to foreign ownership by someone who has no claim to canadian ownership status.

What's the cira policy on this, do we report them, does cira follow up, does anybody care? Not that I have a hope in hell of getting the domains but it's clearly a violation of cira's terms and it pisses me off to see top end domains in foreign hands.
 

MaiTaiMan

NameNinja.com
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Topics
7
Posts
199
Likes
394
CIRA allows non-Canadian entities that hold a Canadian trademark to own a .CA domain ... not saying that's the case here, but the CIRA ownership rules are nuanced: Canadian Presence Requirements for Registrants

Also, the rules are not strongly enforced or policed, in my experience.
 

Groot

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Topics
18
Posts
307
Likes
132
Market
When has CIRA ever checked someone's address?

China has that passport requirement thingy (as of recently?), not sure about other extensions. Not sure how effective it is either.

Could the registrars be restricting it based on the billing address? Other than that, anyone can just select the "Canadian citizen" option, enter a random Canadian address you looked up online, and you move on...
 

RedRider

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Topics
33
Posts
226
Likes
93
I saw one with Chinese name servers, Chinese address and the word Canada at the end instead of China.
 

richard.schreier

CIRA.ca
Service Representative
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Topics
3
Posts
75
Likes
199
We routinely investigate potential issues of violating CPR (Canadian Presence Requirements) through a process called RIV (Registrant Information Validation). If we find a .CA domain registrant does not meet CPR, then the domain is suspended. But remember, someone having a foreign address may still be a Canadian Citizen and hold a valid passport and in this context will meet CPR.
 

MapleDots

MapleDots.ca
Community Guide
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Topics
908
Posts
4,364
Likes
3,655
Market
We routinely investigate potential issues of violating CPR (Canadian Presence Requirements) through a process called RIV (Registrant Information Validation). If we find a .CA domain registrant does not meet CPR, then the domain is suspended. But remember, someone having a foreign address may still be a Canadian Citizen and hold a valid passport and in this context will meet CPR.

Hehe, someone in China that holds over a thousand domains and some of them are .ca?

Seen that too, believe it or not. I didn't think it was any of my business so I did not pursue, I remember it was a sweet domain though.


I saw one with Chinese name servers, Chinese address and the word Canada at the end instead of China.
 

domains

DomainMedia.ca
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Topics
57
Posts
1,011
Likes
523
Market
We routinely investigate potential issues of violating CPR (Canadian Presence Requirements) through a process called RIV (Registrant Information Validation). If we find a .CA domain registrant does not meet CPR, then the domain is suspended. But remember, someone having a foreign address may still be a Canadian Citizen and hold a valid passport and in this context will meet CPR.
What happens if you decide to take the domain away from someone with non-Canadian presence?

Does it become available right away or does it go to TBR?

Reason is, I once registered a .ca a number of years ago that I thought was a valuable domain and shouldn't have been available, and shouldn't have made it through a TBR. Did a bit of digging and saw the previous registrant might have been Canadian, so assumed it must have been taken away and made available, and I was the first to spot it. But I always wondered if it happens that way.
 

theinvestor

DNCanada.ca
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Topics
94
Posts
979
Likes
725
My understanding is that a domain that is lost due to a RIV does not go into TBR. It becomes available when CIRA releases it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FM

DomainTrader

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Topics
7
Posts
345
Likes
136
I found .ca domains where the seller is clearly not canadian, I checked whois, forsalelink, facebook, ip address and everything links to foreign ownership by someone who has no claim to canadian ownership status.

What's the cira policy on this, do we report them, does cira follow up, does anybody care? Not that I have a hope in hell of getting the domains but it's clearly a violation of cira's terms and it pisses me off to see top end domains in foreign hands.
you should also be sure to check the CIPO database for trademarks
 

DomainTrader

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Topics
7
Posts
345
Likes
136
I can attest to the fact that CIRA does (unsure of the frequency) indeed conduct registrant verifications. They came after me LOL
wonder if anyone except for richard (not because he is aware of my case but because of his ability to find out) can guess what domain name they chose to conduct the verification on
 

rlm

Bonfire.ca
Gold Notable Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Topics
63
Posts
1,628
Likes
1,547
They RIV'd me too a decade or more ago.
 

DomainTrader

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Topics
7
Posts
345
Likes
136
They RIV'd me too a decade or more ago.
are to share the name......I will go first

CIRA did an RIV on me for CERA.ca
LOLOLOLOLOLOLO
You can't make this stuff up
 
  • Like
Reactions: FM

rlm

Bonfire.ca
Gold Notable Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Topics
63
Posts
1,628
Likes
1,547
are to share the name......I will go first

CIRA did an RIV on me for CERA.ca
LOLOLOLOLOLOLO
You can't make this stuff up
Well that explains why, they probably thought you bought a typo of CIRA!
 

DomainTrader

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Topics
7
Posts
345
Likes
136
Hell I called you Dan Cira for a month before I realized it was cera :ROFLMAO:
i'll take it
Well that explains why, they probably thought you bought a typo of CIRA!
Well it is a typo of CIRA but that was not what drew me to the domain name
Interesting that you can't day the word domain without the letters "dan" being in it and the CIRA thing well thats just icing on the cake
 

richard.schreier

CIRA.ca
Service Representative
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Topics
3
Posts
75
Likes
199
@DomainTrader to give you a bit of clarity on the RIV (Registrant Information Validation) process... RIV targets a "registrant" not a domain name. A RIV process is initiated either by us receiving a complaint that someone suggests the registrant of a specific domain does not meet Canadian Presence Requirements or by an internal review that suggests the registrant information looks suspicious. For example, someone indicates a CITY as "Ottawa" but then puts "AG" (Afghanistan) as the country. Could be a typo error of course, but needs to be followed up. And we recognize that Canadians citizens (valid COR category) might live abroad, but again that may need verification.

A challenge on rights to own a specific domain name is done through the CDRP (Canadian Dispute Resolution Process). CDRP has very strict rules (as domainers well know) that have to be satisfied for a complainant to win the domain (Ref: CIRA Domain Name Dispute Resolution Rules - Canadian International Internet Dispute Resolution Centre). One of those is to demonstrate "why the Registrant should be considered as having no legitimate interest in the domain name". In your case having a last name "Cera", in my opinion, would make it very difficult for a complainant to prove you had no legitimate interest (but that's just my opinion :) ).
 

DomainTrader

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Topics
7
Posts
345
Likes
136
While I appreciate your explanation I found it concerning at the time that I was targeted for the RIV without explaination. As far as your legal opinion as to domain entitlements based on surnames while relevant ones surname is no guarantee they are entitled to the corresponding domain name. Take Micheals.ca which belonged to and was taken away from a gentleman with the surname Michaels
 

rlm

Bonfire.ca
Gold Notable Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Topics
63
Posts
1,628
Likes
1,547
While I appreciate your explanation I found it concerning at the time that I was targeted for the RIV without explaination. As far as your legal opinion as to domain entitlements based on surnames while relevant ones surname is no guarantee they are entitled to the corresponding domain name. Take Micheals.ca which belonged to and was taken away from a gentleman with the surname Michaels
While I 100% agree in principle, Mr Michaels case seemed obvious that he purely intended to profit off the confusion of the existing well known brand with identical products. I saw that as someone purposely pushing the limits of CDRP and trademark law just to see how much he could get away with. I haven't read that case in a long time, but that was the takeaway that has stuck in my memory. I know he's here and has great contributions from time to time. Now that many years of water are under the bridge, I wonder what he'd have to say about it? It would be interesting to know but I also would understand if he didn't want to discuss it.
 

rlm

Bonfire.ca
Gold Notable Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Topics
63
Posts
1,628
Likes
1,547
While I appreciate your explanation I found it concerning at the time that I was targeted for the RIV without explaination. As far as your legal opinion as to domain entitlements based on surnames while relevant ones surname is no guarantee they are entitled to the corresponding domain name. Take Micheals.ca which belonged to and was taken away from a gentleman with the surname Michaels
I also agree, it was disconcerting for sure, more like crap your pants time. But - I also understood that it was a simple requirement. It would have been nice if CIRA required that proof BEFORE creating any registrant, not after the fact, inducing that oh **** moment of terror. That would also help minimize abuse. Because I'm sure it is rampant.

And I also agree that some explanation would be nice, and the fact that it was done via my registrar rather than directly with me, also gave me concerns. Thankfully I had a great registrar @bmetal who didn't drop the ball. I'm not so sure other registrars would do the same. But its a great reason to never muck around with your whois info, be sure its legit and up to date.