Experiment

rlm

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So to try and help seed some conversation here, I thought lets try an experiment.

I received an inquiry last week on a 2-word domain [domain redacted], we've been negotiating back and forth, but haven't agreed yet, but maybe close. Both sides have said our final offer, but we're still apart.

So does anyone want to throw out an opinion on a fair end-user valuation or guess what it will sell for (that is if we agree to a sale?)
 

MacMan

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Two words, what would it sell for?
I'd probably say around $2500

Mobile care is going to be big with the elderly and medical.
 

LovelyLynda

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Any domainer worth a hill of beans would ask at least 10 thousand to an end user.
 

Nafti

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I would say high x,xxx. So anywhere between $7500 and $9999. But it’s RLM so you will get about $500K. :)
 

MapleDots

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HeHe, rlm knows the power of no.

It's the same thing Rick Schwartz (Domain King) always says...

A good domainer is the one that can say no to a high offer.
 

rlm

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Haha, yes, saying no and being willing to walk away is absolutely key to making big sales. But that comes with a big reality-check caveat. You have to know who your buyer is, understand what its worth to them, guess what they can realistically afford, and then estimate your odds at getting a better offer in the future on that particular domain.

In this case, its pretty much a dime-a-dozen domain to me. Sure I like it, but it really means nothing to me. So making a sale happen is probably the smart thing to do in this case. But the principle of getting my price is getting in the way. I've come down a little from my initial ask. They've come up a bunch, then I came down a bit more, but drew the line in the sand and said that's it. They came up again, but $1K short of my line. That offer was last Sunday. Since I drew the line in the sand and they didn't meet it, I haven't even responded yet to their $1K short offer. They haven't followed up either. Just crickets from both sides. BTW - Nafti's guess is right on with what I was thinking too. My initial price was $9500 CAD.

I think what I'm going to do is follow up tomorrow and just send them my invoice at my line-in-the-sand price and either they can pay it or not. I probably should've take that approach immediately after their last offer, as I find that tactic often works well. But I was sort of being stubborn, disinterested and busy with other things this week. We'll see what happens.
 

Nafti

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rlm said:
Haha, yes, saying no and being willing to walk away is absolutely key to making big sales. But that comes with a big reality-check caveat. You have to know who your buyer is, understand what its worth to them, guess what they can realistically afford, and then estimate your odds at getting a better offer in the future on that particular domain.

In this case, its pretty much a dime-a-dozen domain to me. Sure I like it, but it really means nothing to me. So making a sale happen is probably the smart thing to do in this case. But the principle of getting my price is getting in the way. I've come down a little from my initial ask. They've come up a bunch, then I came down a bit more, but drew the line in the sand and said that's it. They came up again, but $1K short of my line. That offer was last Sunday. Since I drew the line in the sand and they didn't meet it, I haven't even responded yet to their $1K short offer. They haven't followed up either. Just crickets from both sides. BTW - Nafti's guess is right on with what I was thinking too. My initial price was $9500 CAD.

I think what I'm going to do is follow up tomorrow and just send them my invoice at my line-in-the-sand price and either they can pay it or not. I probably should've take that approach immediately after their last offer, as I find that tactic often works well. But I was sort of being stubborn, disinterested and busy with other things this week. We'll see what happens.

Knowing who the buyer could be is very important I believe. I had someone contact me over a week ago wanting to buy a 1 word .ca from me. He tipped his hat and told me who he is. He is the owner of my 1 word + another word in .ca. Buying my 1 word only makes sense. Knowing who he is, I asked more than I normally would. He didn’t write back but the name is very generic and very, very valuable to him so I know he will get back to me at some point. I won’t disclose the name here as it’s still ongoing but I can say over a PM if anyone wants to know. :)

I should open up my own appraisal company and call it EldredBot. Has a nice ring to it! Haha :)
 

rlm

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Well I sent them an invoice for my previously quoted line-in-the-sand price of 6500 + GST (they had offered $5500). They immediately accepted it this time. I probably could've stuck to my original price and still closed the deal, but oh well, I'm still happy. I had a $64 total investment into it, including renewals.

I recently may have negotiated too hard on another domain, apparently pissed them off enough that they ghosted me, after making an 8500 offer. I was ultimately willing to accept their offer, but by then they wouldn't return my emails or phone call. I guess they changed their minds. Ya win some ya lose some...
 

rlm

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Nafti said:
Knowing who the buyer could be is very important I believe.

Absolutely - that might be the single most important thing you can know.
 

Nafti

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You need to write a book RLM on negotiation strategies. :) I have seen some prices this year on what you have gotten on a few of your .ca’s and it’s mind boggling. I do know that you do a lot of research and once you know who the buyer is, you go from there.
 

rlm

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Nafti said:
You need to write a book RLM on negotiation strategies. :) I have seen some prices this year on what you have gotten on a few of your .ca’s and it’s mind boggling. I do know that you do a lot of research and once you know who the buyer is, you go from there.

Well its definitely know your buyer, have patience, act firm but helpful, and be willing to walk away. It shouldn't be easy. If its easy and fast, you're leaving money on the table. I think a good sale is when the buyer really agonizes over it but eventually buys anyways. That's when you know you got the most out of that buyer.

If anyone is ever in the middle of a negotiation and wants advice, feel free to ask. Or if you can't figure out who the buyer is, maybe I can help figure it out, I have a few tricks up my sleeve. But the reality is, you just can't get blood out of a turnip so many negotiations are short and over without a sale. But don't let that color your opinion of a domain's value because when the right buyer does show up, you still want to get maximum value out of it. You want to sell it to the one business who can make best use of your domain, not the 99 other mom-and-pop shops that can't. The real trick is knowing if you're talking to the one, or one of the other 99...
 

rlm

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Nafti said:
You need to write a book RLM on negotiation strategies.

I was mentioning about research and knowing your buyer? Well yesterday I received a $100 offer on a one-word.ca, the proverbial category-killer keyword type domain. So I politely just blew him off saying sorry, its would be significantly higher priced than that. But he responded back asking for a price. So I started doing my research... My first attempt, I didn't find anything interesting, other than he has a small shop. But then I made another research attempt tonight. I found his name in an obituary, as a VIP guest at the funeral of the founder of a well known .COM site owned by a Toronto company, but most people don't realize its a Canadian company as its not really branded that way. The only reason I put two and two together is that I had already researched the .COM and used archive.org to go waaay back and find the founders names listed on the website 20 years ago. So when I saw the other name in the obit, I did a double take, went back to archive .org to confirm I wasn't just seeing things, and sure enough I was right, it was the same name. Talk about an obscure set of clues to find, but that's all I needed to know that I may have hooked a whale. The question is, can I reel that beast in? Only time will tell. Its quite possible they'll just say I'm crazy and walk away. Its also not out of the realm of possibility that it'll be a big sale. I hope I get the opportunity to put the Domain King's negotiation strategies to work again! In any case, the point is, research, research, research! Thanks to google, there are almost always clues to be found somewhere.
 

Nafti

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I always look up someone when I get an inquiry. It’s even better when they tell you exactly who they are. :) Some will come out and say that they are the end user. Not in that text of course. @rlm when they tell you that they are an end user, do you make sure that you have extra saliva in your mouth for when you lick those chops? :lol:
 

rlm

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Nafti said:
@rlm when they tell you that they are an end user, do you make sure that you have extra saliva in your mouth for when you lick those chops? :lol:

Haha, unfortunately, if they are up front about their identity and business, then I know they're small and this isn't going to be a big sale, maybe a respectable sale, but not a big one. The big companies always hide their identity or go through a broker. I have yet to receive an email that says "Hey, I'm head of IT at [Microsoft|Apple|Google|etc] and I was instructed to contact you. We have a billion dollar idea and need your domain. Where do I send the blank check?" :lol:
 

MapleDots

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rlm said:
Haha, unfortunately, if they are up front about their identity and business, then I know they're small and this isn't going to be a big sale, maybe a respectable sale, but not a big one. The big companies always hide their identity or go through a broker. I have yet to receive an email that says "Hey, I'm head of IT at [Microsoft|Apple|Google|etc] and I was instructed to contact you. We have a billion dollar idea and need your domain. Where do I send the blank check?" :lol:

I have had a broker on me all week for pink.ca and that is on top of the other broker from last week for the same domain.

I finally said go here sales.mapledots.ca
I said read what it takes to do business with me, it specifically says I deal with the end user only.

You don't disclose the end user then the price goes up dramatically.
 

rlm

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MapleDots said:
I have had a broker on me all week for pink.ca and that is on top of the other broker from last week for the same domain.

I finally said go here sales.mapledots.ca
I said read what it takes to do business with me, it specifically says I deal with the end user only.

You don't disclose the end user then the price goes up dramatically.

Personally, I wouldn't do that. The reality is, you have a darn good idea of who it is so what point are you trying to prove? Brokers exist for several reasons, one being anonymity. There's no point in putting up a wall to negotiating, what are you actually gaining by doing that? Just set your price and stick to it, if the buyer isn't who you thought it was, who really cares, you got your price anyways. Just price it high, stand firm and let the chips fall where they may.

Another reason you don't want to do that is, you don't want to give them any ammunition legally. The CIRA dispute rules say that you cannot register a domain simply to prevent access to the domain to another business. You want to establish that the price is the same, regardless of who the buyer is, not give them the impression that your pricing is jacked up just for a certain buyer.

What you can tell them is that if the seller doesn't disclose their identity and billing address, then you have to assume the worst possible scenario and thus you have to collect an additional 13% HST to cover your ass if CRA says you needed to collect it after the fact. CRA can assess you for the taxes if you didn't collect it when you should have. So tell them if they choose not to disclose, then you'll further be required to add 13% HST on top of the asking price.

In fact, you _could_ follow up saying that the reason you need to know the identity and billing address of the buyer is to ensure you quote a price that includes the proper taxes. That at least covers your ass as to why you needed to know their identity.

Best of luck.
Rob
 

MapleDots

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rlm said:
Personally, I wouldn't do that. The reality is, you have a darn good idea of who it is so what point are you trying to prove? Brokers exist for several reasons, one being anonymity. There's no point in putting up a wall to negotiating, what are you actually gaining by doing that? Just set your price and stick to it, if the buyer isn't who you thought it was, who really cares, you got your price anyways. Just price it high, stand firm and let the chips fall where they may.

Another reason you don't want to do that is, you don't want to give them any ammunition legally. The CIRA dispute rules say that you cannot register a domain simply to prevent access to the domain to another business. You want to establish that the price is the same, regardless of who the buyer is, not give them the impression that your pricing is jacked up just for a certain buyer.

What you can tell them is that if the seller doesn't disclose their identity and billing address, then you have to assume the worst possible scenario and thus you have to collect an additional 13% HST to cover your ass if CRA says you needed to collect it after the fact. CRA can assess you for the taxes if you didn't collect it when you should have. So tell them if they choose not to disclose, then you'll further be required to add 13% HST on top of the asking price.

In fact, you _could_ follow up saying that the reason you need to know the identity and billing address of the buyer is to ensure you quote a price that includes the proper taxes. That at least covers your ass as to why you needed to know their identity.

Best of luck.
Rob

Great advice Rob but if you visit sales.mapledots.ca it's a straight form asking for a conclusive offer and who is enquiring. It really does not give them any ammunition because I did not spend a lot of time conversing with the broker.

I simply stated that if he wanted to start a negotiation he would have to fill out the form, same thing I do with everyone.

Generic gmail Email... hey man what ya asking for domain one.

Me: You can inquire at sales.mapledots.ca

Notice there is a tiny little legal tidbit on that form.
 

rlm

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MapleDots said:
Great advice Rob but if you visit sales.mapledots.ca it's a straight form asking for a conclusive offer and who is enquiring. It really does not give them any ammunition because I did not spend a lot of time conversing with the broker.

Yeah, I didn't actually look at the form, I just reacted to your post.
 
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