Vaccine Mandate (1.Viewing)

I have a question for members and my intention is not to pit vaccinated against not vaccinated, this question is more about privacy and identification theft.


If you get into trouble with the police what are the same two questions they always ask?

1. Your full name

2. Your Birth Date


The reason they ask that is so they can verify your name to your birthdate and not duplicate another person with the same name. We are taught to NEVER release our full name and birth date to the general public because they are the key pieces needed to start identification theft.


Yet....

In Ontario, we are supposed to show vaccination proof along with a government form of picture ID that shows our birth date. That generally means Drivers License or Health Card.

OMG, does anyone else realize the privacy implications of this?

Am I alone in saying I will NEVER do that, I will avoid restaurants and gyms forever before I ever bow down to that draconian policy.


So taking the whole vaccination point out of the conversation, this is a massive privacy breach.

As of September 22, 2021, Ontarians will need to be fully vaccinated (two doses plus 14 days) and provide their proof of vaccination along with photo ID to access certain public settings and facilities. This approach focuses on higher-risk indoor public settings where face coverings cannot always be worn and includes:

Restaurants and bars (excluding outdoor patios, as well as delivery and takeout);
Nightclubs (including outdoor areas of the establishment);
Meeting and event spaces, such as banquet halls and conference/convention centres;
Facilities used for sports and fitness activities and personal fitness training, such as gyms, fitness and recreational facilities with the exception of youth recreational sport;
Sporting events;
Casinos, bingo halls and gaming establishments;
Concerts, music festivals, theatres and cinemas;
Strip clubs, bathhouses and sex clubs;
Racing venues (e.g., horse racing).

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This whole vaccine passport is a mess in general. It’s actually illegal here in Ontario for anyone other than your Doctor to ask you your medical history unless you consent or course. So I’m not sure how a server at a Chuck’s Roadhouse (great steaks btw) can ask you for your vaccine passport.

If someone is vaccinated or not, I personally don’t care but some would have to agree that maybe this isn’t about a virus anymore.

Well, for me, I just show it and have a great meal.

aactive said:

Well, for me, I just show it and have a great meal.

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If you look at the opening post, it is not about the passport, it is the fact you have to show Ontario Photo ID which contains your birth date. So you go into chinese chicken store and the next week you have identity fraud. They had your credit card that you paid with and all your information from your drivers license. It's an ideal way to start scamming people and with mini hidden cameras everywhere it would be extremely easy to do.

So lets just say you give that information out 2-3 times per day. Odds are eventually you will be the victim of identity theft.

Agreed, one should avoid giving out that information when possible. Twitter, as an example, doesn't enable "Tips" unless you've input your birth date! Instead of having a box that says "I'm over 18", they want your actual birth date (which they never actually check against any documents, either).

If/when they eventually get hacked, that info would be out there....

I’m not sure how many of you have actually have been required to show it but I don’t really think the 15 year old at McDonald’s or any other restaurant really cares or even looks long enough at your vaccine receipt and your drivers license. The system is a joke anyway. It’s very easily forged but my guess is those who are so against it don’t care about their privacy.

yeah, this could be a giant hot topic that some people might be afraid to speak up on...

I too don't personally care if you're vaccinated or not really. However... and I mean a BIG however... that's a choice and it should come with consequences. The #1 consequence should be that if you refuse vaccination, you won't get health care for covid complications, or if you do, you must pay for it out of pocket. That's your choice, and the consequence of your choice.

But back to the question at hand:

When it comes to privacy over your name and birthdate, I highly doubt that those two common pieces of information are all that secret to begin with. Its on your driver's license, your passport and your health care cards, countless friends and family know it, your mailman probably knows it, your co-workers all probably know it, etc...

That being said, do I think the birthdate is necessary? Probably not. Why couldn't the vaccine passport have an attached photo like all your other ID? Or better yet, why not just link your vaccination status to your existing driver's license or Gov't ID? You need it for so many other things anyways.

rlm said:

The #1 consequence should be that if you refuse vaccination, you won't get health care for covid complications, or if you do, you must pay for it out of pocket.  That's your choice, and the consequence of your choice.

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For that to hold water you'd have to deny medical care to drunk drivers, foolish people not wearing seat belts, teenagers doing reckless things, or even someone who attempted suicide. Fortunately ignorance is not a reason we deny health care for in Canada or we'd all have gone without health care at one point or another.

LovelyLynda said:

For that to hold water you'd have to deny medical care to drunk drivers, foolish people not wearing seat belts, teenagers doing reckless things, or even someone who attempted suicide. Fortunately ignorance is not a reason we deny health care for in Canada or we'd all have gone without health care at one point or another.

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Ah yes, you're right. If you get caught drunk driving you get fined heavily and a restricted or revoked drivers license after that - regardless if you actually caused any harm or not. So what your saying then is, if you get covid while stubbornly refusing to get vaccinated, you should get heavily fined and restricted from travel. I agree 100%. Great point, glad you brought it up!

But seriously, I do agree that something like that would open a huge potential can of worms of similar issues. Like would smokers get health care for lung cancer? But they subsidize their health care with the unbelievably high tax rates on cigarettes, so in a way, they do pay for it. Or what about obese people, was it their choice to eat a lot? Or is it a hormone/hereditary issue? Or what about not wearing a seat belt, what if they always do wear a seatbelt but they forget one time? Auto accidents are supported by the insurance premiums, so they pay for it too.

When it comes to anti-vaxxers, not getting the vaccine wasn't an impulse decision like drunk driving or not wearing a seatbelt or doing something dangerous. It is a very deliberate decision - so I think there's still quite a bit of difference.

If the gov't said "no vaccine - no health care" for covid symptoms, then there's a simple solution for that too. You could certainly get anti-vaxxers together with an insurance company, and ask to be insured as a group against medical costs if you get covid despite not getting a simple vaccine, and then pay their premiums to be covered. That would sound 100% fair, right?

When you engage in risky behaviours that the rest of society doesn't engage in regularly, then you should wisely insure yourself specifically for that behavior. Typical life insurance wont cover regularly jumping out of airplanes or heliskiing or other risky behaviours without getting an additional rider to cover it. Smokers have much higher life insurance premiums too. And riskier jobs have much higher insurance premiums too. That's just how the world works. You choose the riskiest of behaviours, there are and should be consequences.

I'm just fed up and at the point where I've done everything I can - I've been double vaxxed, I wear a mask when asked to, I stopped traveling for a long time, I've been tested countless times when I have traveled, etc... Vaccinations and the occasional mask wearing are truly simple and safe things to do. So I'm just sick of still having my rights restricted and additional hoops to jump through when I've done everything right and I'm not the problem... It's time to restrict the rights of the people who ARE the problem.

Well said Rob *THUMBSUP*