WHO is Catchdrop.ca - lets discuss (2.Viewing)

theinvestor said:
Either way you won’t get the answers you want. We are all at the mercy of the options we have. If you choose to not allow yourself to participate it only hurts yourself. That’s the problem here.
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That may be, but remember I don't deal with myID either, too many shenanigans, that has been discussed many times over in our topics and messages. The day will come when CIRA forces the process to become more transparent.

By comparison WHC sets the standard, the support is incredible, the process is transparent and listen to their clients. WHC is the shining example of how it should be done.

Now if I look at catchdrop it is obvious a lot of work went into it and I am hoping all goes well, the ceo did join up so that is a positive sign.
Hopefully we can discuss it openly and get on with the task at hand.

All that said I think CIRA themselves should be supplying more information about who participates in TBR or who is an authorized registrar. I mentioned that in another topic, there are a number of registrars without contact info on the published list and I personally would not use them. Call me old fashioned but knowing where my domains sit and who has control of them is of the utmost importance to me.
 
You should call and talk to him @MapleDots.

He's never really been active here and you can't force the guy but i agree he should probably chime in a bit since he's in our business. And while it would be in his interest to engage here I'm not sure he owes anyone an explanation of everything and how he got into tbr etc. Cira has already approved all that, like @theinvestor said.

I haven't been in touch with him in over a year but I first met him on Twitter a long time ago. It's not like I saw his passport but he is Canadian and they do have a real address with a real office in Montreal. I don't want to speak for him but i can almost guarantee there's no connection with myid either. They are definitely different entities with different owners.
 
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As a newb who just recently got into the game, I purchased domains from myid, whc and catchdrop for the first time. Myid’s website reminds me of my Commodore 64 and I don’t like the auction process. Like an idiot, i bid high on pre-auction only to find out there’s another auction after the auction. And don’t get me started on the 3 minute rule which can last perpetually. I’m not a fan and the business model is not very honest imo, but I’ll still buy from him if he has a name I want. WHC is kind of similar with their auction platform but the site looks good and works well and they seem like a sold corp. I found that the most honest platform for auctions is actually dropcatch. If they catch and 2 people or more backordered it goes to a 7 day auction. 24-48 hours would have been fine too but whatever. The auction is open to the public so if you missed the back order you can still get in and there are no 3 min auction extensions!! That’s the fairest process of all 3 registrars.
Just my 2 cents. I don’t know who runs any of these sites and if I get screwed I can always call my cc company to remove the charge. I just sent myid 7k by e transfer and that actually made me feel a bit uneasy, but so far all my catchdrop buys we’re on cc and I feel very comfortable buying there.
 
Here is my take on it....

myID has a proven track record and so far nothing untoward, in regards to shortchanging domainers has happened. That said there is a lot of secrecy and black holes where domains end up never to see the light of day. We all know things are happening but so far it has been pretty inert to domainers (that we know of). It is this big shroud of mystery and the website that seems to be turned off bit by bit that worries me thinking one day the lights will turn off and that is it. Hopefully when that happens everyone will be paid out (hopefully).

catchdrop comes along, we don't know anything about them but they look like they are playing above board. Again a veil of secrecy around who runs it and since we are dealing with auctions and domain ownership transparency means everything. I cannot say anything with any substance about catchdrop because we don't know anything of substance about them. They ask for our drivers license and I have heard domainers say they gave it to myid too. Well myid has a long established track record so we can base our reasoning on that. It's too early in the game to say much about catchdrop, I may give them more info as time goes on but right now I see no reason to. From what I have seen so far they stopped engaging with our community when members asked questions about their services. In my opinion that puts them well on their way to becoming a second myID and personally I don't think we need that. On a positive note we know Yaacov is the CEO and maybe when he sees fit to he may schedule a question and answer topic to introduce himself.

Then there is WHC who is probably one of the most upfront and proactive companies I have ever seen. They have 6 reps including the CEO that have joined the forum to work with domainers. They engage in topics, via service tickets and with emails when we inquire or have a problem. I know the first and last name of every single person I am dealing with. If I have an issue I can bring it up with @FM who is assigned to dn.ca (or maybe volunteered). All the reps are super friendly and I can call in or email them and actually talk to them when needed. When something goes wrong they own it and explain what they can do to fix it. Are they perfect? No but that's what makes it great, they will work with us until it is to our satisfaction. This company surprises me at every turn and I have engaged Emil the CEO a number of times, including a few days ago. He is approachable and although he delegates (as every ceo should) he shows genuine concern that I am happy with his companies services.

So personally I can only say I am the most comfortable with WHC, but I would love to engage with catchdrop and myID when whc does not catch a domain. I am traditionally a high bidder on domains and it is for that reason I want to know the company I'm dealing with. I do not feel safe throwing my cash through a hole in a frosted window. I want a nice big beautiful picture window which makes it crystal clear who I am dealing with. It is for that reason that I started the process of transferring 500+ of my domains to WHC today. Again Emil and FM is working closely with me to automate that process. Depending on how it goes, and how I feel about the control panel, I may start the process to move in more.
 
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Screenshot (3).png



FOOTNOTE:

I get a feeling that catchdrop might disrupt the .ca industry a bit moving forward. I can't say if that will be positive or not but I look at innovation as a positive. I have an idea what Private Seller might be but if anyone has more news please post it and share.
 
MapleDots said:
Screenshot (3).png



FOOTNOTE:

I get a feeling that catchdrop might disrupt the .ca industry a bit moving forward. I can't say if that will be positive or not but I look at innovation as a positive. I have an idea what Private Seller might be but if anyone has more news please post it and share.
Click to expand...
You have a keen eye for detail. I didn’t even notice that
 
Props to the veterans here lighting the way.
« Who is wise? He who learns from every man »
 
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cultofcar said:
As a newb who just recently got into the game, I purchased domains from myid, whc and catchdrop for the first time. Myid’s website reminds me of my Commodore 64 and I don’t like the auction process. Like an idiot, i bid high on pre-auction only to find out there’s another auction after the auction. And don’t get me started on the 3 minute rule which can last perpetually. I’m not a fan and the business model is not very honest imo, but I’ll still buy from him if he has a name I want. WHC is kind of similar with their auction platform but the site looks good and works well and they seem like a sold corp. I found that the most honest platform for auctions is actually dropcatch. If they catch and 2 people or more backordered it goes to a 7 day auction. 24-48 hours would have been fine too but whatever. The auction is open to the public so if you missed the back order you can still get in and there are no 3 min auction extensions!! That’s the fairest process of all 3 registrars.
Just my 2 cents. I don’t know who runs any of these sites and if I get screwed I can always call my cc company to remove the charge. I just sent myid 7k by e transfer and that actually made me feel a bit uneasy, but so far all my catchdrop buys we’re on cc and I feel very comfortable buying there.
Click to expand...

I don't mind the old school look. Several registrars are that way. Sometimes the KISS principle is best, and I value functionality first.

Actually, the 3 minute rule is very common in TBR its what everyone is used to. Lets face it, if you're the auction house making nearly 100% profit, you want to make sure everyone has a chance to counter-bid, no matter how long it takes. I can see if you were selling someone else's stuff in a live auction and you're just getting a commission, then there's a point of diminishing return when its costing you to keep the auction going so you need to end it. But this is online so there is no cost to keep it running. And as a bidder, you're always free to put a proxy bid if you cant or don't want to hang around. That's not likely to change, so you'll just have to get used to it. Embrace the fun of live-action-bidding! :)

And you said it. You'd still do business there no matter what if they have a domain you want. That's the reality of it, so registrars will do whatever is best for themselves. They know you HAVE to come back each week.

As for extending vs having a set end time, one isn't obviously fairer than the other. In theory if you have rules and everyone knows them, its fair. But if anything, ending at a specific time might actually be less fair because that invites DOS attacks on the auction house as an attempt to prevent others from putting in a last second bid. I've seen that happen. Furthermore, people with programming skills will also take advantage of auctions that end at a set time because they can automate bidding faster and more perfectly timed than a human. That gives them an advantage in sniping at the end. I've seen that happen too. Auction sniping - Wikipedia

And is it actually fair that people who put in the work to put in pre-bids then get screwed over when they invite all the lazy people into the auction for nothing? I think that's arguably the least fair policy of any TBR registrar going!

And lastly, it would be completely unfair to reverse a CC charge on a domain you bid on and won! That's exactly why MyID stopped taking CC payments because a-holes would win a domain and then reverse charges. I've heard the same complaints from other registrars too. I completely stand by any registrar that enforces TBR payments made by e-transfer or wire, especially if the price is of any significance. Maybe if its under a certain threshold, then CC allowed, or if above a certain threshold, the e-transfer or wire only. BTW, I started a domain related platform once and it was a never-ending-task to deal with the fraudsters.

I can certainly understand the feeling of uneasiness of sending large chunks of cash, but they want you to keep coming back each week. Long established businesses like MyID, WHC and Baremetal aren't going to screw over the golden goose customer. You know MyID paid only $9.50 for that domain right? So that $7K is a nice profit for them. The golden-goose customer list that is willing to pay $5K and up for a .CA TBR domain can be counted on probably no more than two hands. Welcome to the golden-goose club!

After close to 20 years of participating in TBR now, I've never been screwed by a single TBR registrar and have done extensive business with Sibername (now WHC), MyID and Baremetal in particular. I doubt that would be a problem with CatchDrop either, but I can't personally attest to that. Sure, some have made a mistake or two (one once claimed that two different bidders were the winners in an auction due to technical glitches and that nearly started a war here), but not once did I feel that the auction result was maliciously changed, nor that an auction house took someone's money but didn't hand over the domain. If the bidder pays their balance, the auction house is happy to give them their domain. So going forward, I wouldn't sweat that part. If anything, you should be more concerned about working with a new player like Catchdrop than an old school player that is established and a reputation to keep up.

All that said, you can certainly say that you prefer one format, but I don't think you can say that one is fairer given that all have rules that are posted.

Lol, and I just checked, maybe read up on the catchdrop rules. They clearly state that they extend the auction by 3 minutes too.

CatchDrop: Backorder Expired .CA Domain Names
 
@MapleDots Thank you for the kind words - we try our best to stay in touch with the domainer community, and for me, this is part of my origins with this industry, so it comes naturally. I don't want to post too much in a thread about the coopetition here, so I'll keep this short, but...

@cultofcar: Did you mention the Commodore 64? I still have and use several of those as a hobby :D Mostly the PAL (European version). Without the C64, I wouldn't be here today.

mikeyboy said:
i signed up under monkeybuttholes. they sent me an email demanding change it or get kicked off
Click to expand...
LOL. That reminds me of a domainer, who shall remain unnamed, bidding under the name of "Taryn" at Pool. Taryn ran Pool at the time. My first bidder name at Sav.com was Anthos :D
 
rlm said:
paid only $9.50 for that domain right?
Click to expand...
Plus, the money for the connections, the people and the technology behind it can be quite an investment.
 
rlm said:
I don't mind the old school look. Several registrars are that way. Sometimes the KISS principle is best, and I value functionality first.

Actually, the 3 minute rule is very common in TBR its what everyone is used to. Lets face it, if you're the auction house making nearly 100% profit, you want to make sure everyone has a chance to counter-bid, no matter how long it takes. I can see if you were selling someone else's stuff in a live auction and you're just getting a commission, then there's a point of diminishing return when its costing you to keep the auction going so you need to end it. But this is online so there is no cost to keep it running. And as a bidder, you're always free to put a proxy bid if you cant or don't want to hang around. That's not likely to change, so you'll just have to get used to it. Embrace the fun of live-action-bidding! :)

And you said it. You'd still do business there no matter what if they have a domain you want. That's the reality of it, so registrars will do whatever is best for themselves. They know you HAVE to come back each week.

As for extending vs having a set end time, one isn't obviously fairer than the other. In theory if you have rules and everyone knows them, its fair. But if anything, ending at a specific time might actually be less fair because that invites DOS attacks on the auction house as an attempt to prevent others from putting in a last second bid. I've seen that happen. Furthermore, people with programming skills will also take advantage of auctions that end at a set time because they can automate bidding faster and more perfectly timed than a human. That gives them an advantage in sniping at the end. I've seen that happen too. Auction sniping - Wikipedia

And is it actually fair that people who put in the work to put in pre-bids then get screwed over when they invite all the lazy people into the auction for nothing? I think that's arguably the least fair policy of any TBR registrar going!

And lastly, it would be completely unfair to reverse a CC charge on a domain you bid on and won! That's exactly why MyID stopped taking CC payments because a-holes would win a domain and then reverse charges. I've heard the same complaints from other registrars too. I completely stand by any registrar that enforces TBR payments made by e-transfer or wire, especially if the price is of any significance. Maybe if its under a certain threshold, then CC allowed, or if above a certain threshold, the e-transfer or wire only. BTW, I started a domain related platform once and it was a never-ending-task to deal with the fraudsters.

I can certainly understand the feeling of uneasiness of sending large chunks of cash, but they want you to keep coming back each week. Long established businesses like MyID, WHC and Baremetal aren't going to screw over the golden goose customer. You know MyID paid only $9.50 for that domain right? So that $7K is a nice profit for them. The golden-goose customer list that is willing to pay $5K and up for a .CA TBR domain can be counted on probably no more than two hands. Welcome to the golden-goose club!

After close to 20 years of participating in TBR now, I've never been screwed by a single TBR registrar and have done extensive business with Sibername (now WHC), MyID and Baremetal in particular. I doubt that would be a problem with CatchDrop either, but I can't personally attest to that. Sure, some have made a mistake or two (one once claimed that two different bidders were the winners in an auction due to technical glitches and that nearly started a war here), but not once did I feel that the auction result was maliciously changed, nor that an auction house took someone's money but didn't hand over the domain. If the bidder pays their balance, the auction house is happy to give them their domain. So going forward, I wouldn't sweat that part. If anything, you should be more concerned about working with a new player like Catchdrop than an old school player that is established and a reputation to keep up.

All that said, you can certainly say that you prefer one format, but I don't think you can say that one is fairer given that all have rules that are posted.

Lol, and I just checked, maybe read up on the catchdrop rules. They clearly state that they extend the auction by 3 minutes too.

CatchDrop: Backorder Expired .CA Domain Names
Click to expand...
Well composed and thought out as usual. That's why I love your analysis @rlm Thank you.
 
rlm said:
I don't mind the old school look. Several registrars are that way. Sometimes the KISS principle is best, and I value functionality first.

Actually, the 3 minute rule is very common in TBR its what everyone is used to. Lets face it, if you're the auction house making nearly 100% profit, you want to make sure everyone has a chance to counter-bid, no matter how long it takes. I can see if you were selling someone else's stuff in a live auction and you're just getting a commission, then there's a point of diminishing return when its costing you to keep the auction going so you need to end it. But this is online so there is no cost to keep it running. And as a bidder, you're always free to put a proxy bid if you cant or don't want to hang around. That's not likely to change, so you'll just have to get used to it. Embrace the fun of live-action-bidding! :)

And you said it. You'd still do business there no matter what if they have a domain you want. That's the reality of it, so registrars will do whatever is best for themselves. They know you HAVE to come back each week.

As for extending vs having a set end time, one isn't obviously fairer than the other. In theory if you have rules and everyone knows them, its fair. But if anything, ending at a specific time might actually be less fair because that invites DOS attacks on the auction house as an attempt to prevent others from putting in a last second bid. I've seen that happen. Furthermore, people with programming skills will also take advantage of auctions that end at a set time because they can automate bidding faster and more perfectly timed than a human. That gives them an advantage in sniping at the end. I've seen that happen too. Auction sniping - Wikipedia

And is it actually fair that people who put in the work to put in pre-bids then get screwed over when they invite all the lazy people into the auction for nothing? I think that's arguably the least fair policy of any TBR registrar going!

And lastly, it would be completely unfair to reverse a CC charge on a domain you bid on and won! That's exactly why MyID stopped taking CC payments because a-holes would win a domain and then reverse charges. I've heard the same complaints from other registrars too. I completely stand by any registrar that enforces TBR payments made by e-transfer or wire, especially if the price is of any significance. Maybe if its under a certain threshold, then CC allowed, or if above a certain threshold, the e-transfer or wire only. BTW, I started a domain related platform once and it was a never-ending-task to deal with the fraudsters.

I can certainly understand the feeling of uneasiness of sending large chunks of cash, but they want you to keep coming back each week. Long established businesses like MyID, WHC and Baremetal aren't going to screw over the golden goose customer. You know MyID paid only $9.50 for that domain right? So that $7K is a nice profit for them. The golden-goose customer list that is willing to pay $5K and up for a .CA TBR domain can be counted on probably no more than two hands. Welcome to the golden-goose club!

After close to 20 years of participating in TBR now, I've never been screwed by a single TBR registrar and have done extensive business with Sibername (now WHC), MyID and Baremetal in particular. I doubt that would be a problem with CatchDrop either, but I can't personally attest to that. Sure, some have made a mistake or two (one once claimed that two different bidders were the winners in an auction due to technical glitches and that nearly started a war here), but not once did I feel that the auction result was maliciously changed, nor that an auction house took someone's money but didn't hand over the domain. If the bidder pays their balance, the auction house is happy to give them their domain. So going forward, I wouldn't sweat that part. If anything, you should be more concerned about working with a new player like Catchdrop than an old school player that is established and a reputation to keep up.

All that said, you can certainly say that you prefer one format, but I don't think you can say that one is fairer given that all have rules that are posted.

Lol, and I just checked, maybe read up on the catchdrop rules. They clearly state that they extend the auction by 3 minutes too.

CatchDrop: Backorder Expired .CA Domain Names
Click to expand...
RLM,
I appreciate the time you took to respond to my post. It may be worth repeating that I am the new guy and this is a learning process. I did not know catchdrop had the 3 minute rule as it didnt apply to any of my auctions but I will keep an eye out for that. The way all TBR registrars run their auctions have been going on for many years and I wont be the one to change it, and my point was that this 3 minute reset was a surprise to someone used to ebay style auctions.
I totally understand the sniper argument and i used a sniper service on ebay for many years to win auctions, but the 3 minute rule creates a reactive response instead of an instinctive response. In my mind I will tell myself that the most i am ready to bid on a particular item or name is $500 for example, and I commit to proxy bid up to 500. Under a conventional auction, if my proxy is the highest bid at the end of the auction then I win the auction. But what happened to me was that my bid was still the highest bid at the end of the auction, yet the auction was extended by 3min because someone else has a bid in within the last 3 minutes. I tried to outsmart the system and calculated 3 entire bids ahead of mine, but it still didnt work. That is the part that was frustrating to me, but im not sure my point is coming across. for example, auction ends at my 500 bid, but gets extended by 3 min. the other guy needs to bid 550(for example) to become the highest bidder and he has 3 min to do so. Within the same 3 minutes, I upped my max bid to 800 (proxy) for example, yet after 3 min i become the highest bidder at 600 and the 3min gets reset again. My higher proxy should have outbid my opponents 50$ increase and declare me the winner.
Anyhow, its a learning curve and i get it, and i appreciate the input.
 
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Having seen and participated in TBR from it's inception, no one knows exactly how everything works @cultofcar . We too are learning still and I like you explaining the scenario. Yes for someone who has been a pro with Ebay, this is somewhat different and is designed to benefit the creator the most. There was another platform which extended the closing time by 20 mins. They no longer are active these days. I have been on their platform literally for hours when I needed to get a domain. Now I don't. My attention span at these auctions have shrunk so much that after a couple of extensions, I am gone. So welcome to the club as @rlm said and hope our bank accounts don't dry out before CIRA stops dropping them. ;)
 
cultofcar said:
RLM,
I appreciate the time you took to respond to my post. It may be worth repeating that I am the new guy and this is a learning process. I did not know catchdrop had the 3 minute rule as it didnt apply to any of my auctions but I will keep an eye out for that. The way all TBR registrars run their auctions have been going on for many years and I wont be the one to change it, and my point was that this 3 minute reset was a surprise to someone used to ebay style auctions.
I totally understand the sniper argument and i used a sniper service on ebay for many years to win auctions, but the 3 minute rule creates a reactive response instead of an instinctive response. In my mind I will tell myself that the most i am ready to bid on a particular item or name is $500 for example, and I commit to proxy bid up to 500. Under a conventional auction, if my proxy is the highest bid at the end of the auction then I win the auction. But what happened to me was that my bid was still the highest bid at the end of the auction, yet the auction was extended by 3min because someone else has a bid in within the last 3 minutes. I tried to outsmart the system and calculated 3 entire bids ahead of mine, but it still didnt work. That is the part that was frustrating to me, but im not sure my point is coming across. for example, auction ends at my 500 bid, but gets extended by 3 min. the other guy needs to bid 550(for example) to become the highest bidder and he has 3 min to do so. Within the same 3 minutes, I upped my max bid to 800 (proxy) for example, yet after 3 min i become the highest bidder at 600 and the 3min gets reset again. My higher proxy should have outbid my opponents 50$ increase and declare me the winner.
Anyhow, its a learning curve and i get it, and i appreciate the input.
Click to expand...

No problem and yes, I definitely understood you were new, we've all run through the same thoughts many years ago, so I just thought I'd fill you in on those details.

I get what you're saying with proxy bids, but the crux of it is that its in the auction house's interest to make sure they don't turn away any bids. So if the top bid (excluding the proxy) changes in value (and not just in bidder), then the 3 minutes get added. You were hoping it wouldn't add time as long as the top bidder didn't change, even if the top bid did.

And the whole concept of freely getting into auctions without having had to put in a pre-bid is new and a bit controversial. But otherwise, not much has changed in TBR in 20 years, at least from the buyer side...

There were changes on the registrar side though. One successful TBR registrar was bought out by a hosting business, so if you heard of Sibername, that is now WHC. A couple of old TBR registrars have dropped out of the game, including one called Pool.com that was pretty active and successful in the day. That was when registrars could only have one connection into the TBR system, and as a result, many shell registrars were created, and many registrars also pooled their TBR resources together (hence the name). CIRA eliminated that requirement a couple years back and now they don't have to create a shell registrar, they just pay for an extra connection (but at the same cost). It just eliminated a lot of the paperwork and filing required for everyone involved to have a bunch of shell companies for no real useful purpose. That, along with CIRA's complete rewrite of the registry software (which is now called Fury) have been the major changes to TBR on the registry side of things.
 
FM said:
Plus, the money for the connections, the people and the technology behind it can be quite an investment.
Click to expand...
It is, but that's a choice of the registrar, and an overhead cost. The wholesale price for an individual domain is still just $9.50.

Just out of curiosity, will WHC acknowledge just how many connections you have? My estimate is at least 61 - based on my understanding of how TBR works (so that's $1K each to those that don't know).

It's tougher figuring out how many MyID has. They do great at the top, but their $60 initial bid pricing pushes all the lower value domains back to the other TBR registrars. Without the depth of domains to go after that other registrars have, its impossible to really know just how many connections they actually have.
 
FM said:
@MapleDots Thank you for the kind words - we try our best to stay in touch with the domainer community, and for me, this is part of my origins with this industry, so it comes naturally. I don't want to post too much in a thread about the coopetition here, so I'll keep this short, but...

@cultofcar: Did you mention the Commodore 64? I still have and use several of those as a hobby :D Mostly the PAL (European version). Without the C64, I wouldn't be here today.


LOL. That reminds me of a domainer, who shall remain unnamed, bidding under the name of "Taryn" at Pool. Taryn ran Pool at the time. My first bidder name at Sav.com was Anthos :D
Click to expand...
Frank S ?
 
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