TBR Drop - Feb 21, 2024 (2.Viewing)

rlm said:

Well the collagen auction finally ended. @MapleDots wasn't the winner, it was the former owner, CanPrev. The domain was purchased a few years ago for $10K USD, but had to pay $17K CAD to re-acquire it after what I assume was a mistake with an expired CC on file or something like that. Ouch.

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Might be worth mentioning that some registrars take longer to delete domains than other registrars. The domain had a Jan 13th anniversary date, and yet it was in the Feb 21st drop. Which suggests that namespro sent it directly to redemption period as soon as it expired. If it had been registered through us (and probably most registrars), they would have had an extra 35 days in "auto-renew grace" to renew the domain (e.g. it wouldn't have shown up in TBR until march 20th or 27th.) - Tom

MapleDots said:

I go way back with that company, still do an immense amount of business with them.

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So did you buy it back for them? Or help explain to them how to get it back?

Would have been a rare oversight or glitch on their part if that happened I believe as I have had many domains expire with NamesPro over the last 20 years and none have ever been released earlier than their 30 day auto renew time frame.
Just my experience.

bmetal said:

Might be worth mentioning that some registrars take longer to delete domains than other registrars. The domain had a Jan 13th anniversary date, and yet it was in the Feb 21st drop. Which suggests that namespro sent it directly to redemption period as soon as it expired. If it had been registered through us (and probably most registrars), they would have had an extra 35 days in "auto-renew grace" to renew the domain (e.g. it wouldn't have shown up in TBR until march 20th or 27th.) - Tom

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jaydub said:

Would have been a rare oversight or glitch on their part if that happened I believe as I have had many domains expire with NamesPro over the last 20 years and none have ever been released earlier than their 30 day auto renew time frame.
Just my experience.

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I keep extensive whois records for posterity, so I'll dig up the details.

Ok, so here's part of the whois snapshot I saved a few days before it dropped. It looks like it was updated to pendingDelete status on Feb 13, which is about 31 days after it was supposed to expire on Jan 13, so about 41 days from expiry to being dropped in TBR.

Domain Name: collagen.ca
Registry Domain ID: D148853-CIRA
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.ca.fury.ca
Registrar URL: NamesPro.ca | Register Domain, .ca Domain, Domain Registration Canada, Canadian Domain, Web Hosting Canada, Canadian Hosting, Windows Hosting, Linux Hosting
Updated Date: 2024-02-13T07:00:47Z
Creation Date: 2003-01-13T17:33:19Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-01-13T05:00:00Z
Registrar: Namespro Solutions Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: not applicable
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@namespro.ca
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.6046818007
Domain Status: pendingDelete EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverHold EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverRenewProhibited EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverUpdateProhibited EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN

I checked a domain registered by baremetal that is in tomorrows TBR. It had an expiry date of Jan 1, so about 73 days from expiry to drop.

Domain Name: marimba.ca
Registry Domain ID: 79797991-CIRA
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.ca.fury.ca
Registrar URL: BareMetal: the hosting specialists
Updated Date: 2024-03-08T05:07:42Z
Creation Date: 2020-01-01T18:31:22Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-01-01T18:31:22Z
Registrar: BareMetal.com inc
Registrar IANA ID: not applicable
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: support@baremetal.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.2505987708
Domain Status: pendingDelete EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverHold EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverRenewProhibited EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN
Domain Status: serverUpdateProhibited EPP Status Codes | What Do They Mean, and Why Should I Know? - ICANN

So, based on these two examples, Tom seems to be correct. Namespro domains are dropping around 40 days after expiry, Baremetal domains are dropping around 70 days after expiry, give or take a week to account for the fact that the drops only happen on wednesdays.

HOWEVER, I'm checking other domains, and for Namespro, most of the domains in TBR this week had expiry dates ranging from Feb 2 to Feb 9 (like 100+ expiring domains), so in that 40 day area. Yet I also found that three domains had expiry dates similar to the baremetal example above, so if you look at epolitics, commissionaire and gotalk, they all have expiry dates of Dec 27 to Dec 30. So it seems clear to me that Namespro has a much LONGER delete policy (around 70 days) for certain customers. Pure speculation on my part, but its possible that employees get preferential treatment? Maybe specific large customers? Maybe one customer that was a squeeky wheel and complained and got their account with the preferential extended drop dates? But clearly the majority don't get that perk.

Note that all of the domains dropping from Baremetal seem to be consistent and within a week of the same expiry dates, somewhere around the 70 day mark.

jaydub said:

Would have been a rare oversight or glitch on their part if that happened I believe as I have had many domains expire with NamesPro over the last 20 years and none have ever been released earlier than their 30 day auto renew time frame.
Just my experience.

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Sounds like I was unclear. (Sorry to flog the dead horse... even more so with Rob's post, interesting to note that namespro is not consistent!)

30 days is the redemption period (which is different and separate from auto-renew-grace). And it was just that little bit over 30 days (Jan 13 anniversary, Feb 21st TBR run). No registrar can make a domain drop any faster. Expires, and gets deleted same day, 30 days later it goes into irreversible pending-delete and spends a minimum of about 2 days on the TBR list, which means something from 2 to 9 days later, it is in the TBR run. Pretty much exactly what happened here.

At most registrars, the 30 day redemption period doesn't start until 35-40 days after the domain expires, so the domain wouldn't have gone to TBR until the March 20th or 27th run.

Would an example help? rockwall.ca is in tomorrow's TBR run. Its anniversary date was January 4th.

This thread had me so confused today (because grace & redemption were lumped together), that I went back to CIRA's website to re-read two of their agreements

FM said:

This thread had me so confused today (because grace & redemption were lumped together), that I went back to CIRA's website to re-read two of their agreements

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The domain name life cycle – CIRA

Basically I think it can be summarized in this order:

1. There is an optional Auto-Renew-Grace period, lasting from zero to 45 days. This is up to the registrar, it can be zero. It can be 45 days. It can be anything between. NAMESERVERS ARE STILL WORKING, WEBSITE IS STILL ACTIVE.

2. Next, there is a 30 day CIRA mandated redemption grace period. NAMESERVERS AREN'T PUBLISHED, WEBSITE AND EMAIL IS DISABLED. This is your only guaranteed renewal window. This mandated 30 days where your website and email is shut down is your fair warning that your domain will be deleted soon.

3. Next, the domain is marked as Pending Delete. It will be listed by CIRA as dropping in the next TBR session on the upcoming Wednesday. It must be listed in the weekly TBR list for at least 60 hours or a maximum of 1 week prior to actually being released in TBR.

4. Next, there's a 1 hour TBR window where TBR listed domains can be registered by a registrar through a special TBR session. If a registrar successfully registers it, that registrar either assigns it to a customer that requested it, or they can auction the domain off.

5. And lastly, if it isn't picked up in the 1 hour window allocated to the weekly TBR session, then it becomes available to the public through any registrar.

So the absolute minimum a domain can go between the expiry date to being owned by someone else is 0 days + 30 days + 60 hour = 32.5 days.

The absolute maximum a domain can go between the expiry date to being owned by someone else (or being availabe for general registrationg) is 45 days + 30 days + 7 days = 82 days.

So if your domain is more than 32.5 days past expiry, you're running the risk of losing it. At that point, it all depends on the generosity of your registrar. Basically, your registrar pays for the renewal in advance on your behalf, and if you don't pay your registrar, they'll eventually ask CIRA for a refund by deleting your domain and thus letting it drop. So it really depends on how long your registrar is willing to wait around for you to reimburse them for the renewal costs (which can be anywhere from 0 to 45 extra days).

@FM and @bmetal - does that sound accurate?

rlm said:

The domain name life cycle – CIRA

Basically I think it can be summarized in this order:

1. There is an optional Auto-Renew-Grace period, lasting from zero to 45 days. This is up to the registrar, it can be zero. It can be 45 days. It can be anything between. NAMESERVERS ARE STILL WORKING, WEBSITE IS STILL ACTIVE.


@FM and @bmetal - does that sound accurate?

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Yes, that's accurate, but most registrars put a clientHold on the domain during stage 1, so "still working, still active" usually is not true. -Tom

rlm said:

@FM and

@bmetal - does that sound accurate?

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What Tom said Thanks for the summary.