Discuss WHC's Backordering Platform (1.Viewing)

  • Topic Starter FM
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rlm said:
Yikes, this is a legit discussion, no need for the attacks. It has been pretty civil around here lately, lets keep it that way.

I guess I'll give up my idea that I've been sitting on in case I ever wanted to use it myself. I've already given WHC many of my ideas for free anyways.

Personally I think I have the perfect balance between privacy and transparency, which I would call "earned transparency".

I would only reveal the bidder ID to the person that just got outbid. By having placed the previous high bid, you and you alone have earned the right to see who outbids you. So bystanders do not get to see the action. The only transparency that is deserved is the transparency that is earned by real bidders in the auction. That keeps it private for the most part, but transparent enough for the people who are actually spending money, allowing them to be satisfied it was a fair auction.

I wouldn't make the results public after the auction either.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue against this system.
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Great idea!
 
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DomainRecap said:
Keep digging that hole deeper there Stalky.

And my point is that you have been the main proponent of "online stalking and tracking is pure fantasy" and of WHC instituting "full transparency" through displayed Bidder IDs, while admittedly being a full-blown Online Stalker who has actively tracked TBR bidders.

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There is nothing wrong with tracking anything. This is coming from the guy making money off affiliate to constantly track drops. You’re a fool.
 
theinvestor said:
You’re a fool.
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I think we all know who the double-talking fool is here. You are literally the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. You purport to want "full transparency" when by your own admission, all you really want to do is use that "transparency" to track and stalk your fellow DN members.

And your brain rationalizes this behavior as "There is nothing wrong with tracking" and "It's just business", like that suddenly makes it right.

Your own words confirm everything I've stated, and no amount of name-calling is going to change FACTS that you wrote yourself.

Just keep digging that hole deeper.
 
rlm said:
I'm not sure how anyone could argue against this system.
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If these Bidder IDs are easily linked to a name or personal identifier, I've got quite a few valid privacy arguments against it.

You can choose to bid or not, but your money doesn't buy you the legal right or to "deserve" access to the personal data of others. Where did you ever dredge up this requirement from? It's actually the exact opposite of current privacy laws.

I also find this highly amusing that you guys are actually stating that "I don't trust WHC to run a TBR auction" which is ludicrous, as WHC/Siber is by far the most above-the-board TBR registrar out there. If you don't trust them, why do you use their service?

I truly believe the vast majority of the "full transparency" requests are a shield to gain access to private user data and then utilize that as a competitive advantage. This has been so-eloquently proven by our resident stalker theinvestor, and his two-faced comments are rationalized with "There is nothing wrong with tracking" and "it's just business".

Indeed it is, so don't expect me and some others to just bend over to online stalking and tracking.
 
Auctions for the top names usually attract a few posers who want to see the final selling price. I can understand that they may not be happy to be exposed.

DomainRecap said:
If these Bidder IDs are easily linked to a name or personal identifier, I've got quite a few valid privacy arguments against it.
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Develop said:
Auctions for the top names usually attract a few posers who want to see the final selling price. I can understand that they may not be happy to be exposed.
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It's actually the exact opposite - no one would care to be shown with a $20 bid, but I would care deeply if all my "real bidding" was available for the stalkers to download, track and disseminate. as a $1K bid tells a stalker a lot more than a pile of $20 min bids.

Your original statement makes zero logic, and I think you (hopefully) knew that when you wrote and are just poking the bear. Poor effort.

To be honest, if WHC or anyone else displays Bidder IDs, then I guess everyone in my family is going to get a brand new WHC account for Christmas, not to mention middle names and business addresses if I need them... fight fire with fire, and there is nothing illegal about it.
 
I like this idea as well. What about the top 2 or 3 bidders on a name get to see the auction details after the fact. I think further discussion can come up with a fair solution.



rlm said:
I would only reveal the bidder ID to the person that just got outbid. By having placed the previous high bid, you and you alone have earned the right to see who outbids you. So bystanders do not get to see the action. The only transparency that is deserved is the transparency that is earned by real bidders in the auction. That keeps it private for the most part, but transparent enough for the people who are actually spending money, allowing them to be satisfied it was a fair auction.

I wouldn't make the results public after the auction either.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue against this system.
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Develop said:
I think further discussion can come up with a fair solution.
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I guess if "fair" means "easily trackable" in your language, then you're definitely right.

I would bet real money that the majority of WHC end users would not want all their bidding activity, auction wins, prices paid, etc. open for public viewing, and [notify]FM[/notify] should be careful not to listen to the overly-vocal stalking community and somehow believe they speak for everyone.

And as you clearly don't trust WHC, where is the same vitriol for others like MyID? Do you implicitly trust them?
 
What is very troubling about this is that theinvestor has provided his support for "full transparency" while speaking out of the other side of his mouth about using Bidder IDs to track users, make lists, and link these to real people... and no one has a problem with this?

I've long known that my ethics are not in tune with the average domain investor, but this is getting scary. It's like one of those old stories where a guy has a few drinks, then abruptly wakes up to see everyone stalking towards him holding a knife.

Is everyone on here secretly hoping to use static TBR Bidder IDs or other personal identifiers to stalk each other? Looks that way.
 
My comment wasn’t specifically directed at you.

If you took it that way ….




DomainRecap said:
It's actually the exact opposite - no one would care to be shown with a $20 bid, but I would care deeply if all my "real bidding" was available for the stalkers to download, track and disseminate. as a $1K bid tells a stalker a lot more than a pile of $20 min bids.

Your original statement makes zero logic, and I think you (hopefully) knew that when you wrote and are just poking the bear. Poor effort.

To be honest, if WHC or anyone else displays Bidder IDs, then I guess everyone in my family is going to get a brand new WHC account for Christmas, not to mention middle names if I need them... fight fire with fire and there is nothing illegal about it.
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Develop said:
My comment wasn’t specifically directed at you.
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Yes it was, otherwise why would you say something so incredibly idiotic?

Like anyone would care about showing a couple of $20 bids (Oh no!!), compared to an entire set of very expensive TBR domain purchases, including prices and individual bids, being openly displayed.

You'd have to be a nitwit to give the first one a second though, but a detailed list of their 3 and 4-figure (and maybe 5-figure) domain transactions being disseminated online should concern anyone with a brain.
 
DomainRecap said:
What is very troubling about this is that theinvestor has provided his support for "full transparency" while speaking out of the other side of his mouth about using Bidder IDs to track users, make lists, and link these to real people... and no one has a problem with this?

I've long known that my ethics are not in tune with the average domain investor, but this is getting scary. It's like one of those old stories where a guy has a few drinks, then abruptly wakes up to see everyone stalking towards him holding a knife.

Is everyone on here secretly hoping to use static TBR Bidder IDs or other personal identifiers to stalk each other? Looks that way.
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They say ignorance is bliss, but I truly don't understand what good tracking someone's bidding history and portfolio does.

Put the domain in the bag or you'll get it! [:}
 
mcm said:
They say ignorance is bliss, but I truly don't understand what good tracking someone's bidding history and portfolio does.
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Stalking/tracking offers a definite competitive advantage, as we all have bidding patterns, budget limits and overall propensities.

If you're up against multiple bidders in a premium LLL or 1-word auction, and those same bidders have access to your past TBR history and know how high you bid & exactly how you bid in other similar domain auctions (win or lose), then they can predict your behavior in these current auctions.

This is why people stalk others in auctions - if you know who you're bidding against and have access to past bidding results and patterns, you can better prepare your own strategy.
 
Conversely, a select few of the egomaniacal High Rollers out there actually want static Bidder IDs because they hope their reputation & big pockets may scare off some bidders and allow them to win auctions at a lower price.

But that's a whole other ball of wax.....
 
WHC appears to be interested in building a tbr system with some true integrity. They are asking for input to help build that system. If successful, it can become the standard that all registrars should be required to meet.

I will give you a personal example which would make one suspect of the system up to now.

I was high bidder for a name at $20.
It went to auction. I’m still showing as high bidder at $20. Surprisingly it starts getting bid up by someone. I take the bidding to hundreds of dollars and drop the name on them at a point you wouldn’t expect. Sure enough, by all appearances they didn’t pay for the name and it ended up with the registrar.

Too many names seem to end up that way at a number of registrars and that is why I’m prepared to offer ideas for a better system even if they are shot down as not very good ideas.

You can bitch and complain and be part of the problem or you can put yourself out there with some proposals and be part of the solution.

It’s up to you.
 
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Develop said:
WHC appears to be interested in building a tbr system with some true integrity.

I will give you a personal example which would make one suspect of the system up to now.

I was high bidder for a name at $20.
It went to auction. I’m still showing as high bidder at $20. Surprisingly it starts getting bid up by someone. I take the bidding to hundreds of dollars and drop the name on them at a point you wouldn’t expect. Sure enough, by all appearances they didn’t pay for the name and it ended up with the registrar.

Too many names seem to end up that way at a number of registrars
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So please tell me EXACTLY what you think is going on here and exactly how you would solve it.

You state that "WHC appears to be interested in building a tbr system with some true integrity" then in the same breath, state that fishy stuff may be going on at WHC and that domains "ended up with the registrar".

I hope you also understand that unpaid domains at Siber/WHC (and others) are automatically offered to the second bidder...
 
I didn’t say what registrar this happened at. You did.

No, names are not automatically offered to the second bidder if the first bidder doesn’t pay.

Once again, I am not pointing out any specific registrar.


DomainRecap said:
You state that "WHC appears to be interested in building a tbr system with some true integrity" then in the same breath, state that fishy stuff may be going on at WHC and that domains "ended up with the registrar".

I hope you also understand that unpaid domains at Siber/WHC (and others) are automatically offered to the second bidder...
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Develop said:
I didn’t say what registrar this happened at. You did.
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If it didn't happen at WHC or Siber, then go delete your post, as this thread is dedicated to "Discuss WHC's Backordering Platform". Unfounded innuendo concerning another "Mystery Registrar" doesn't belong under this WHC thread.

Maybe create new thread to cover issues with that particular registrar.

And yes, at WHC and Siber (among others) unpaid domains ARE offered to the second bidder. This has been confirmed before, although it is not a common occurrence.


I think I'm about done with this thread as "arguing with stalkers" is not in my job description.

I trust Frank and I trust WHC, and I believe that any potential changes will fully protect the identities and transactional data of their paying customers.

WHC is a company looking to grow and take an ever-larger role in .CA TBR, registration, and hosting, and the very last thing they need is a privacy issue. Trust me, doling out private user data not a good look in 2022.
 
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